Rob: The older I get, the more people I meet. Everybody has got something, whether they’re dealing with a physical disability or mental health or whatnot. Just keep in mind that you’re not alone, because I know when I was first dealing with my vision loss I felt very isolated. But the best thing that you can do is engage other people, and not just professionals or organizations like us that employ people, but other people that are blind or visually impaired that are successful.

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: Good day and welcome back to the Heard & Empowered podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Hoby Wedler and I am so excited to be here with you today. We have a very special guest, but before we introduce him, I just want to thank you so much, all of our loyal listeners, for spreading the love, sharing our podcast, getting it out on social media, liking it on LinkedIn. Please, whenever you hear an episode, give us a review. If you feel like we deserve it, give us five stars. And if you can write a comment, even one word comments are good in your review if you haven’t reviewed us and commented on what we do already.

And if you think that anyone in your network or your friends network or friends of friends networks who could use this podcast, could use the great advice given here by folks like our awesome interviewee today, please share it with them. Get the word out there. We do not want to be a secret. So let us shine as much as you can. And thank you all so much for everything that you do and for your everlasting support of the Heard & Empowered podcast and everything we stand for.

Today, I am beyond delighted to welcome Rob Buettner to the studio. Rob is on the executive leadership team at Beyond Vision in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We’re just beyond honored to have him and be able to talk to him about some of the great work that he does, both in Milwaukee at Beyond Vision and also up on Capitol Hill in D.C. to advocate and create public policy that supports NIB and all of our amazing nonprofit agencies. Rob, welcome to the show.

Rob: Yeah, thank you, Hoby. It’s wonderful to be here. I’m a big fan of the show and I’m really humbled and grateful to be invited to talk with you today.

Hoby: Well, the pleasure is all mine. This is going to be a great conversation. So I like to get a vision of the person behind the mission. So you do all this great work for Beyond Vision. You’ve served them for a few years now, but tell me a little bit about Rob. I want to get to know you, sort of your early life, you maybe losing some eyesight or if you were born with limited eyesight. If you just can tell us a little bit about your background and kind of how you ended up at Beyond Vision.

Rob: Yeah, no, I’m happy to. I was born and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And of course raised by two parents, I have a younger brother. Went through a pretty typical childhood, grade school, high school, sports, Cub Scouts, friends, and so forth. Then went on to start college. I went to the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater, which is about an hour outside of Milwaukee to study business.

Then after my freshman year of college, it’s summer break and you go for all the doctor’s appointments and things like that while you’re home. And I went to go see my ophthalmologist, who I’d seen my whole life. And I went through the eye exam, went through the whole process, checked my vision, was able to correct my vision to 20/20 with my contact lenses and glasses. And then in the part of the exam where they do the examination of the retina, he looked at my retina, kind of had a puzzled look on his face and started digging through my chart.

And he says, Rob, I’m seeing something on your retina that I’ve never seen before, and I don’t know what it is. I’d like to send you to a specialist. So, he sent me to a specialist, spent like the whole day at this retina specialist being tested and so forth, and ended up getting a diagnosis of Stargardt Macular Dystrophy. And the retina specialist indicated the fact that you’re 19 and your vision is still good is a good sign. This may impact your driving at some point or your ability to read at some point, good luck and go get them.

So, I went on, finished college, and ended up meeting my wife of 26 years at Whitewater.

Hoby: Congratulations.

Rob: Yeah, thank you. Graduated with a degree in business administration with an emphasis on HR management and started my career. At about the age of 25 I started noticing some changes in my right eye. Went back to my ophthalmologist. He indicated that, well, Rob, there’s some additional scarring, this is the best I can correct your vision. You can still drive legally, but there’s nothing that we can do.

And I remember driving home after that appointment and pulling up to my home and I just sat in the driveway for 15 minutes and just cried because I had no idea what this eye disease was, what it meant, how it was going to impact my ability for employment. I had some pretty big dreams with a business degree, and I just felt absolutely lost and in a very dark place.

Hoby: Yeah, I understand that. Wow. That led you to, about age 26, you had a great job that was flourishing. You had a new relationship, fairly new relationship with your wife. And then this comes and it’s totally unknown.

Rob: Yeah, I mean, it’s just a recessive genetic eye condition. So, again, my parents didn’t have anything, my brother didn’t have anything. I was the lucky customer that got the two bad chromosomes that created the Stargardt’s gene. So, I went on with my career, and again, vision loss started to progress. I was working in a corporate HR setting.

Now, what really helped me was back in 1997 a real great, it turned out to be a great friend of mine, became a great friend of mine, Tom Perski, ran an organization called Macular Degeneration International and had a Stargardt’s division. So, in the fall of 1997, my father and I went down to Chicago and I learned a lot more about Stargardt’s. Met about 60 other people with the same eye condition, plus met a lot of other people with varying degrees of blindness.

And from that experience, I really left there believing that regardless of how bad my vision got, as long as I had the determination and the right tools and the right support, I could still do anything that I wanted to.

Hoby: This is amazing. And it’s so, isn’t it incredible how there’s one, usually one event, and I was born totally blind, so I was lucky enough not to lose vision during my life, but I learned the world as a blind person. But I still remember that one event, which I’ve talked about a little bit on the show in the past, which was, I knew how to walk from my high school campus to the downtown. When I learned how to walk from the high school campus to my home, which is almost a two-mile walk, some on country roads and this sort of thing. It was this a-ha moment that I could do anything I wanted.

You know, it’s such a funny thing, and you just told the story for you. It was that one pivotal afternoon.

Rob: Yeah, and it was really powerful. And it also had a profound, my vision loss was having a profound impact on my parents as well. My dad felt very guilty. You know, he has no control over his genes, but my dad felt very guilty, and my mom was in denial. What was interesting is my wife, Wendy, she was my fiancé at the time this was happening, and she knew what was going on. And she just said, “Well, Rob, this is your thing. It doesn’t change anything between us.”  And at that moment, I knew I had the right partner.

Hoby: And how awesome is that? It’s like your blindness is just like you having a different color hair, you know? It doesn’t mean anything to me.

Rob: Yeah, and in 26 years of marriage she’s learned that I have bigger problems than blindness.

Hoby: I love it. I love it. That’s a great way to put it. That’s great. I love your humor. That’s awesome. And do you think this pivotal day of meeting with the Stargardt division, with the Macular Degeneration International Group really helped your dad?

Rob: I do, again, because he saw individuals, all different ages, with the same eye condition. You know, we met a physician who was a psychiatrist. We met, at the time she was a young woman, she was the leading scorer of her high school basketball team. Engineers and so forth. Parents. So it really helped my dad.

Hoby: Oh, that’s awesome. And just, I don’t mean to ask too personal of questions, but it’s interesting. I’ve dealt with people in my life who, even though I was born blind and there’s no fixing it, are still kind of, not family but more acquaintances are still in denial about it. Did your mom ever come around and say, okay, this is what’s happening and it’s okay?

Rob: Yeah, I think she really came to terms the day that I decided to give up driving. I quit driving a month before our wedding.

Hoby: Wow.

Rob: And I think it was at that point that my mom finally came to terms and understood it. But even, like I do use the white cane from time to time. And I remember one time my mom saw me with the white cane and it kind of freaked her out a little bit. But again, I’ve been dealing with this and I’ve been legally blind for 26 years and it’s just part of who I am. My family accepts it, my friends accept it, my kids accept it. It’s just who Rob is and that’s okay.

Hoby: That’s awesome. So how, from your job working in a corporate environment, utilizing your business degree, how did you end up discovering Beyond Vision and deciding – This is a question that I love asking because it can go in many different directions and the answers are always super positive. How did you end up deciding, first of all, getting to know Beyond Vision and then deciding that Beyond Vision was an awesome future?

Rob: Yeah. I mean, when I was in the corporate HR role, again, that’s when the vision loss occurred. And again, the vision loss had a profound impact on me that I felt like I wanted to do more. So again, my wife and I were young, we didn’t have a mortgage, and didn’t have any debt. I had the opportunity to actually start my own business.

Hoby: Wow.

Rob: I started a distributorship of low vision technology products, video magnifiers and so forth.

Hoby: Really?

Rob: Yeah.

Hoby: Oh, that’s cool.

Rob: So with only $2,000 in my pocket, 26 years old, never started my own business, I just took a leap and took a chance and started a business and grew it over three years. During that time of growing and developing that business, I developed great relationships within Wisconsin and the greater Milwaukee area.

I had developed a close relationship with the executive director at the Badger Association of the Blind and Visually Impaired. They were the rehab agency and they had an opening on their leadership team to run their adult rehab center. And he had lunch with me one day, he goes, Rob, I want you working for me. So for 11 and a half years I ran an adult rehab program and oversaw a multidisciplinary team that provided O&M training, technology training, communications.

And through my work at the rehab program, I got to know Jim Kerlin, our CEO at Beyond Vision. They invited me on their board of directors in 2010. I got to know Jim, I got to know the mission, I got to know the board. They had an executive position open in 2013. Jim called me asking me if I knew anybody that had HR experience and that was legally blind because Jim really pushes on creating employment at all levels for people that are blind and visually impaired.

Hoby: Absolutely.

Rob: And I told Jim, well, I only know two people, the person that’s leaving and that’s me. And he forgot about my HR background because he knew me as a leader at the rehab center. And so he goes, well, I forgot about that, Rob. He goes, how much do you want?

Hoby: Oh, that’s great.

Rob: And I said, “You can’t afford me.” He goes, “Want to make a bet?” So we ended up having breakfast and he offered me the job in the middle of breakfast. I joined the team in March of 2013. It’s been an amazing ride and journey with Beyond Vision and my friends and partners through the NIB program.

Hoby: Oh my gosh, Rob, I love that. And what a cool thing that you had two decisions, or you had two choices you could have made when your vision started diminishing. And you took the choice of saying, wait a minute, I have to deal with this, I want to help others deal with it. So you started this distributor company. I love it. Is that still around?

Rob: What was great about it is I grew the business to a point that I was able to sell the business to someone. That helped with us buying our first house. Our children are actually adopted and we adopted both of our kids from China, so the sale of the business helped with that. So yeah, it was a great experience.

And I’ve tried to take that entrepreneurial spirit that I developed with my business to how I approached our rehab program at my previous employer and how we run things here at Beyond Vision, trying to take that sense of entrepreneurship.

Hoby: I can tell you’re an entrepreneur, and I am through and through. I’ve started a few companies now and am working on selling one of them actually fairly soon and then just building on this whole thing. So I love that we share that in common. And it’s amazing if you take that entrepreneurial spirit, I’ve found, to any walk of life, any sector, because what are we doing as entrepreneurs? I mean, a lot of people like to tell us we’re just out there to make a bunch of money fast. And I think that couldn’t be further from the truth. I’ll speak for myself, I’m trying to solve problems. I’m trying to make life better for folks.

Rob: Yeah, solve problems. And I’ve talked to other entrepreneurs too, it’s the chase that’s kind of fun too. Taking something that didn’t exist, something that maybe isn’t doing very well, and taking it to another level, it provides a great sense of accomplishment that no paycheck or check can really. It doesn’t matter, it’s the chase. It’s fun.

Hoby: It is. It’s thrill-seeking.

Rob: Yeah.

Hoby: Yeah, no, I totally agree. You are working as a vice president of – Tell me the exact title. Vice president.

Rob: Yeah, this is the fourth title I’ve had in my 11 years. And it’s vice president of relationships and business services, which encompasses all the areas that I have responsibility and that I lead.

Hoby: Relationships and business services. That’s awesome. That’s incredible. So I’m saying this right now because you’re an amazing guy to talk to, we’re going to have you back on the show in the not distant future to talk about all the amazing work that you do at NIB and what your job entails and what makes you tick, what you love about it from a day-to-day perspective.

What I want to talk about today is your work as sort of a guru, if you will, for Beyond Vision, as a real star of public policy and advocacy work within the entire NIB network. So how did you get involved in public policy form and changing policies and really just understanding the tapestry, if you will, of the political side of things?

Rob: Yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. I think first and foremost, when I was first hired, Jim Kerlin, our president and CEO, asked me to not only lead human resources, but Jim understands the importance of public policy, especially at the national level, but also on the local and state level, and wanted me to take a leadership role in that. And I hadn’t had a lot of experience in public policy before that.

But a couple of months right after I started was the NIB Public Policy Forum or Symposium, I forget what they called it back then. But once I had a chance to learn more about the greater NIB program, because it’s funny, even though I had been at that point in the blindness field for 12 years, I didn’t know a lot about NIB.

To be honest, I kind of had a myth and misconception about these agencies. And in the back of my mind, I thought maybe they were still operating like sheltered workshops and so forth. And as I got into it, and I got to see things on the national level, I realized that these aren’t our grandparents’ sheltered workshops. These are really dynamic, powerful organizations that do amazing things in creating employment and upward mobility.

So that first public policy trip, six to eight weeks on the job, I was hooked and, again, really fortunate to have an organization, a board, and a boss in Jim that really values it and allowed me a lot of freedom to get engaged.

Hoby: Wow. And I love what you’re saying about realizing that the nonprofit agencies supported by NIB are not sheltered workshops. And you were actually able to take your knowledge from business and bring it to NIB, excuse me, you were able to take your knowledge from your business school and bring it, and HR experience, and bring it to Beyond Vision in a super meaningful way and get duly compensated for that.

Rob: Yeah, I mean it’s fantastic. And some of the stories, many of your listeners have heard these podcasts, but there are so many amazing stories within this program and within the walls of Beyond Vision. And I’m just so proud to be a part of this greater mission and so many of the talented leaders and people that are forging forward and trying to grow the mission. It’s wonderful to be a part of.

Hoby: That’s awesome. Your first trip to the Hill as part of a nonprofit agency was in 2013, shortly after you were hired. And have you been every year since?

Rob: Yeah, every year that wasn’t prevented by the pandemic. Typically, I’m in D.C. twice a year for the conferences and once in a while I need to go there for other reasons. But we’ve really tried to ingrain public policy at Beyond Vision is that it’s just not this sidecar that we do once or twice a year, but we try to make it a regular part of our day-to-day operations. I mean, we created a public policy –

Hoby: Yeah, how do you do that?

Rob: We created a public policy team here at Beyond Vision. In addition to myself and Jim, we have two advocates that have gone through the advocate training program through NIB that we work with. Plus, we have other employees that are part of a public policy team that we meet on a monthly basis.

And we not only talk about some of the national issues and what’s going on with our congressional delegation and how we need to engage them, but we also talk about what’s going on with the state of Wisconsin, state legislatures, what’s going on within our city council, what’s going on with the county and transportation. So we try to keep a pulse and figure out where we can position ourselves and help make change.

Hoby: That’s incredible. And I imagine all those people, so yourself, Jim, and the two other advocates all have other jobs at Beyond Vision, but there’s just a mutual desire to, if you will, to support public policy. Is that right?

Rob: Yeah, I mean, we really think it needs to be a team effort. I mean, we’ve played with the idea of trying to create a position and at some point we might get to that stage. But we think it’s a team sport and it actually is an opportunity to engage other employees at all levels in the greater mission and advocacy.

Hoby: Yeah, no, for sure. So at the national level we’re advocating this year for a 1% mandate. So I guess as you know, basically the Department of Defense made a voluntary agreement to try to increase their utilization of AbilityOne goods and services from whatever it was in 2022, around 0.55%, up to 1%. But we haven’t seen much movement on that. So that’s the goal this year, is raising that, really mandating into Congress as well as we can the fact that we need this utilization to be at 1%. So it’s not a goal anymore, but an order, if you will.

How do you see that helping, just looking at Beyond Vision as a little case study, as a little lens, how would that help you all if 1% was hit?

Rob: Yeah, I mean, if you look at that increase, if you assume that that increase in DoD spending would be spread across all of the nonprofit agencies throughout the whole program, you’re talking about almost doubling the amount of orders. I mean, so we could double the amount of employment that we need. And not just at the direct labor level with manufacturing or with services or whatnot, but I think a lot of people outside the program don’t understand the pathways for upward mobility.

So many people that work here at Beyond Vision and that have even appeared on the podcast, started out in direct labor positions but have grown and developed their skills and have grown into leadership roles and professional roles. So I think it could double our business on the government product side and therefore double the number of employees at all levels that we have.

Hoby: I love that. No, I think that’s – And what, you know, considering an unemployment rate that hovers very sadly around 80%, above 70% I should say, anything we can do to decrease that unemployment rate and provide, in your case, twice as many jobs, I mean that’s huge. That’s incredible.

Rob: Yeah. I mean, it’s really a key thing and it’s one of, you know, in Beyond Vision, in our walls we actually look at this as almost a business development initiative. By increasing that demand from an existing customer, that’s going to grow the business and therefore grow the mission and grow the jobs and upward mobility opportunities.

Hoby: Well, one of the things we were talking about before we hit record was your fairly new role in overseeing business development for your commercial services. So it’s interesting, you might be doing assembly work for some of the large equipment companies out there in the United States. Advocacy to them and helping them increase the commercial services they need is no different than working with the federal government to increase the AbilityOne utilization. It’s the same thing.

Rob: Yeah. I mean, on the commercial side, it’s a little bit different.

Hoby: A little harder.

Rob: Yeah, it is harder, but it’s fun. But I think business development is like anything. It’s like human resources. It’s like public policy. You have to have good systems in place and be disciplined to those systems. And that’s what we’re trying to build on the commercial business development side. I’ve got two very talented business development people that work with me and we’re building something pretty good. And even after just a few months, we’re starting to fill our pipeline and hope to see those opportunities turn to fruition soon.

Hoby: There it is. And that’s, you know, sometimes patience feels hard to come by, but it sure is rewarded when things go right. And yeah, that’s very exciting and very cool. And again, we’ll talk about that sometime for sure.

So anything else you want to mention, I guess, on the Hill, you’re going to be on the Hill this May, correct?

Rob: Yeah, I’m really excited. We’ll be doing our Hill visits along with our fellow nonprofit agencies in mid-May. Our advocates, Steve and Megan, are already working on those congressional appointments.

What’s great is we’ve done a great job of building relationships over the years that when we send out a request to our contacts, we get responses right away. But again, that goes back to being disciplined. Not just contacting these people once a year, getting them to know that we’re partners and so forth. But I’m very excited. I’m very excited about the 1% ask. I think it has a huge implication to our program. And also, I’m also excited that this is going to be our only ask this year, which means that we’re laser-focused.

Hoby: It’s so much easier.

Rob: Yeah, we’re laser-focused on it, which will be fun.

Hoby: The other thing that I think is so powerful about all the public policy work for NIB and our nonprofit agencies is that how can you properly say, no, we don’t believe in that? I mean, there’s so many issues on the Hill that are very controversial where some people have very strong opinions for and some people have very strong opinions against. We’re talking about employing people who deserve full gainful employment, just like the folks on Capitol Hill. And it’s hard for people to say, no, we don’t want to do that, you know?

Rob: Yeah, I mean the great thing about our program is that in a time where you can’t get Congress or people in the two parties to agree on anything, it’s a pretty easy sell that employment for a population that historically has had high unemployment or underemployment rates is a pretty easy sell. So I’m really proud. We have great relationships with legislators and staffers on both sides of the political spectrum.

And again, we don’t focus on personal politics or personal beliefs. We focus on the mission. And what we do is awesome. It’s not going to be the solution to the whole employment issue, but it can help. And it’s a pretty easy sell. And again, we have Republicans and Democrats that we consider close friends of the organization, and we’re proud of them and they’re proud of us.

Hoby: I love it. And it’s a great way to, it’s a tool that you can lend legislators and staffers to reach across the aisle and do what is so needed in this day and age.

Rob: Yeah, and the more that you’re on the Hill and you get to know these people, regardless of what your political persuasion is, my feeling is 90% of the people that we meet with and we work with want to do good. There’s the media and there’s how many clicks you get if we publish this story or that story. But when it comes down to it, I believe 90% of the people that are on that Hill, whether they’re elected or they’re employed, want to do good. And this is an avenue for – The AbilityOne program, NIB, Beyond Vision is an avenue for them to do good.

Hoby: Absolutely. No, absolutely. And it’s a great way to, I’ll use the word, empower them.

You mentioned the fact that you have great relationships with your congressmen and women, and you mentioned being persistent. What do you think creating those relationships and holding onto them so tightly, what are some of the tools you use in your toolbox to do that? One that I’m sure works well is the recess visits to Beyond Vision so that they can see what’s happening, right?

Rob: Yeah. I mean, obviously we love to get legislators here, but the one thing that I’ve learned in doing this for 11 years is that the staffers are almost more important. If you can get staff individuals, if you can develop those relationships, then you’re going to be able to meet with the legislators.

So our tactic has been don’t worry about if the senator or if the congressman or congresswoman, don’t worry about if they’re not going to come the first time around. Get their staffer there and really sell the staffer on the mission and let them see for themselves. They’ll go back and tell their staff that, hey, this is pretty cool, and we really want Senator Johnson or Senator Baldwin to come visit here. So we’ve had luck with that strategy. Again, not just focusing on the D.C. staff, but also making sure that you’re developing relationships with the local offices of the congressional delegation.

Hoby: Absolutely, bring them there. Bring state legislators, absolutely.

What are some of your big asks within the state and local community? I mean we’ve got this 1%, but that’s pretty restricted to the national theater. Just to give us an idea, because I think you guys are really strong, if I’ve done my homework correctly and if I’ve heard you correctly, in not only the national, but the state and local advocacy policy work as well. What are some issues you’re working on there?

Rob: Yeah, well, we just finished an issue back in March. Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers signed Wisconsin Act 142, which is a transportation tax credit for workers who are blind or visually impaired. And this is a $1,500 tax credit that individuals that are legally blind can apply to expenses relating to transportation to and from work.

Hoby: That’s incredible.

Rob: So Beyond Vision was really involved at the very beginning and the lead advocate on this bill. And it came about late in 2022. There’s actually a legally blind state representative, his name is David Steffen, from the Green Bay area. He’s got retinitis pigmentosa. We developed a relationship with Representative Steffen over the last 10 years. And he called us late 2022, called us at Beyond Vision and wanted to meet with us because he wanted to do something relating to employment and blindness.

So we developed this concept of the transportation tax credit. He wrote a bill. We tried to get it in the state biennial budget. That didn’t work. But then we got other people involved, both sides of the aisle, Democrats and Republicans, senators and assembly people. And it passed out of both chambers unanimously earlier this year, and the Governor signed it into law. So we’re really proud of that. A lot of hard work.

Hoby: You should be proud of that.

Rob: Yeah, a lot of hard work from our public policy team. It’s going to have a direct impact on our employees that use various transportation modes, but also people that are legally blind throughout Wisconsin where the cost of transportation is a challenge for employment.

Hoby: Prohibitively high.

Rob: Yeah.

Hoby: Wow.

Rob: So that was really exciting. And what was really cool is that the Governor, we asked the Governor to sign the bill with a Skilcraft pen. Yeah, it was a pen made by our partners out in Greensboro. And we actually have a photo on our social media with myself, Jim Kerlin and Steve, our advocate behind the Governor, signing the bill and holding up the Skilcraft pen.

Hoby: I love it. If that’s not a good story, I don’t know what is. That’s awesome. No, that’s incredible. There’s something else you mentioned, you know, everybody’s trying to get to the representative. I just want to reiterate and home in on everybody’s trying to get to the representative themselves and get a meeting with a representative. And maybe it’s not as good if I don’t get a meeting with a representative. You said it best when you said meeting with the staffers and befriending the staffers is one of the best ways to get your foot in the door and create and foster these relationships. And it really is thanking people and being nice to people because you never know who knows who. And it’s all about just building together.

Rob: Yeah. I mean, that’s really key. I mean, people sometimes get disappointed that I didn’t get to talk to the senator or I didn’t get to talk to my congressman. But in reality, and we kind of joke that it’s really the staffers that run the country. I mean, no information gets to the representative without going through the staffer. So we try to take the approach of be nice to everybody, be genuine, follow up, be clear with our ask. And again, being disciplined and being patient, that’s paid off with the relationships we’ve been able to develop.

Hoby: Well, and, you know, it’s the old adage that office administrators are really the ones running any large company that you might think of. I mean, it’s true. They’re the ones that are deciding when and who you should meet with.

Rob: Yeah. I mean, when you think about the commercial business side, typically you don’t get a direct line to that company’s CEO or vice president of operations. You’re going through gatekeepers. So be nice, be strategic and be persistent.

Hoby: There it is. Kindness, strategy and persistence. That’s great. Well, I’m really excited, Rob. I’m going to be with you on the hill this year. We’re going to be doing some interviews and catching some soundbites. And I hope I get to go to one of your meetings with you, it’d be a lot of fun.

Rob: Oh, we would love to have you there. And it’ll be great to meet you in person. And like I said, congratulations to you and NIB, these podcasts are phenomenal. And they’re really telling the true story of NIB and its nonprofit agencies. So thank you.

Hoby: Thank you, Rob. That means so much to hear that coming from you. And we’re really proud of these. And I think it’s a great tool and a great vehicle, so I really appreciate you saying that.

A couple more questions. One more thoughtful one and then the last one is just going to be how folks can get a hold of you because they’re going to be inspired, I’m sure, like I have been over the past few minutes of our chat. But my first question for you is you went off and got a business degree. You were working in corporate America and then you saw literally before your very eyes, your eyesight diminished and you could have taken this many different ways. You could have said, “Woe it’s me, I’m going to live on Social Security for the rest of my life.” And obviously, that’s not you. That’s not your personality.

What advice would you give someone who’s totally freaked out about vision loss and trying to figure out what the next step is? What do you think would be good for them to hear?

Rob: Yeah, I mean, I think a great metaphor is that there’s no dawn without darkness, right, without night. And life has its ups and downs. And this is my thing, the older I get the more people I meet. Everybody’s got something, whether they’re dealing with a physical disability or mental health or whatnot. Just keep in mind that you’re not alone because I know when I was first dealing with my vision loss, I felt very isolated. But the best thing that you can do is engage other people, and not just professionals or organizations like us that employ people, but other people that are blind or visually impaired that are successful.

And I don’t know, my parents really instilled in me a strong work ethic, the expectation that I was going to be a hard worker regardless.

Hoby: Yes, mine too.

Rob: And also a strong faith life, which has guided me through some dark times too.

Hoby: So powerful.

Rob: Yeah, and I appreciate and I value that. So make sure that you have the right people, the right tools and the right attitude around you. It’s really helped me.

Hoby: Attitude is so important. And you’re right, getting to know those people. When I started thinking about, boy, maybe I could go to graduate school in organic chemistry and study organic chemistry, I met scientists and engineers who were blind and said, “Okay, well, shoot, if they can do it, what’s the worst that can happen? Let’s do this.” So it’s all about the community and the attitude.

And boy, a positive attitude and an attitude of I can do whatever it is I set my mind to is so incredibly important. I really believe that our brains are the biggest thing between success and being held back.

Rob: Yeah, I have a button, a friend gave this to me. It’s a button that sits on my desk and it said attitudes can be the real disability. And we try to live by that.

Hoby: I’m going to look that up and order one today. That’s right. You nailed it. That’s it.

Well, Rob, as said, there are going to be a bunch of listeners who hear you over the course of this podcast, who are really inspired by you. How can folks get a hold of you? What’s the best way for them to do that?

Rob: Yeah, I mean, you can email me if you can spell my name correctly. It’s R-B-U-E-T-T-N-E-R @beyondvision.com. Or call our main number, which is 414-778-5800 and ask for Rob. Or if you’re going to be in D.C. in a couple of weeks for the public policy event, let’s find each other and let’s talk.

Hoby: Let’s do it. Absolutely. Well, I look forward to breaking bread with you and having a good time and getting to know you even better.

Rob: I look forward to that, too, Hoby. Thank you so much.

Hoby: Today, we’ve had the amazing opportunity to chat with Rob Buettner of Beyond Vision. Rob, thank you for your insights on public policy and on the great work that you do at Beyond Vision. And we’re going to have you on in a few short months to talk more about your career and you as a person.

Rob: Yeah, I look forward to that, Hoby. Thank you so much.

Hoby: Thanks, Rob. It’s an absolute pleasure. See you on the hill.

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