Intro: 00:01

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. We’re on a mission to empower people who are blind, low vision, or visually impaired to build fulfilling careers, gain personal independence, and take the next step toward achieving their own American dream. Guests from all walks of life share their journeys and how they overcame challenges they faced along the way. Whatever your interests, experience, talents, or career goals, listen to discover important connections and unlock the resources and inspiration you need to chart a new path. Ready to be heard and empowered?

Dean Thompson: 00:35

Hi! Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast. I’m Dean Thompson and thank you for tuning in. I’m here with Joe Spicer, who does not have a middle name. His real name is Joe, not Joseph. And Joe, you’re with Mississippi Industries for the Blind?

Joe Spicer: 00:47

Yes, I’m with Mississippi Industries.

Dean Thompson: 00:48

Tell me what you do there, please.

Joe Spicer: 00:49

Well, I’m the contact center manager there at Mississippi Industries for the Blind. I started that program back probably about 12 or 13 years ago. And it was my first opportunity to work around people who were blind and visually impaired. And so I’ve been there for about 13 years and I love it.

Dean Thompson: 01:12

You’re the call center manager?

Joe Spicer: 01:14

Call center manager or contact center manager. We solicit contracts from state and government agencies as well as private companies. And we pretty much try to keep all the projects to be something that someone who’s blind or visually impaired can do. And actually, it’s a lot of projects that blind and visually impaired people can do.

Folks who are blind and visually impaired can do pretty much anything (as) someone sighted as long as we have the accessibility. Yeah.

Dean Thompson: 01:47

Now you’re from Mississippi, but you moved out of Mississippi for part of your life. Am I correct?

Joe Spicer: 01:51

Yes. When I graduated from college, it was back in the 90s, and we didn’t have much of an economy at that point. And so I went on to Michigan and decided to go to Michigan when it was cold. And I’m from the South.

So yeah, it was a very tough learning experience.

Dean Thompson: 02:11

It’s a wake-up call right there.

Joe Spicer: 02:13

Yeah, definitely a wake-up call. And the cold will wake you up more than anything you could ever imagine. Yeah.

Dean Thompson: 02:19

What did you do in Michigan?

Joe Spicer: 02:20

Well, when I was in Michigan, you know, my background is banking. Okay. So basically, when I went to Michigan, I pretty much started working in the branch. The bank branch. And when I did that, I transitioned over to doing mortgages.

So I spent most of my career being a mortgage officer or mortgage broker.

Dean Thompson: 02:45

How much vision do you have and how’d you lose what you’ve lost? If you don’t mind my asking?

Joe Spicer: 02:49

Well, I have a condition called retinitis pigmentosa. And so over the years, I have some, a small amount of ambulatory vision left, but it really progressed more, more from about 2017 forward. So most of my life I was able to kind of see pretty good during the day. And then, you know, as time progressed, you know, my vision became more and more limited. So it’s kind of like, as I move forward in life, my vision does change, and I just try to embrace it and make the most of it if it does.

Dean Thompson: 03:33

When were you first told that you had RP? How old were you?

Joe Spicer: 03:38

I remember I was 12 years old and I went to the eye doctor with my mom. It was a family eye doctor and he just kind of casually said, ‘Yeah, you have retinitis pigmentosa, and there’s no cure for it.’ And so, but one of the things I can say is that I have older brothers because I’m like the youngest of like eight kids and I have older brothers who had the same condition.

So I was kind of prepared for it, but at the same time, I didn’t know as a kid that that was what it was, and we were just told that we couldn’t see well, and that was pretty much it. And so once I was diagnosed, I just kind of, it wasn’t as shocking as maybe some folks who may experience it, you know, because I kind of knew ahead of time that something wasn’t quite right because I couldn’t see at night first. Yeah.

Dean Thompson: 04:36

When did you realize this was going to have… Okay. First, did it have an impact on you getting a job after school? And when did you realize that was going to be an issue if it was?

Joe Spicer: 04:45

Not much of an impact when I got out of school because I still had functional vision during the day, and so I was kind of able to mask it, I guess you could say. However, I did notice it when I first started in banking because people were like – I was like, telling individuals like, it’s dim light. And so I saw myself not being as effective in dim light as I was when I was in brighter light. And so when I went through my training, I was in brighter light. When I went into the field, I was in dim light. So I would tell people like, hey, you know, it’s, you know, I can’t really see that. Well.

‘Oh, we’ll get you some glasses.’ You know, that’s kind of like, what’s their solution? So they really didn’t understand that. And so I had to put myself in a position where I worked in more natural lighting, and then I excelled. But they just figured that it was a change of scenery as far as the branch was concerned, but it actually was a change in lighting.

And so and with that, I had to leave early sometimes and things like that. So it was a little difficult. Trying to get people to understand that, you know, it was a serious issue other than glasses. Yeah.

And so that’s kind of like when I, when it started to affect me. Yeah.

Dean Thompson: 06:12

You got the old line, ‘You don’t look blind,’ right?

Joe Spicer: 06:14

Yeah. ‘You don’t look blind, you’re looking right at me.’

Dean Thompson: 06:16

So that’s my entire life you’re talking about. So from Michigan, you go back to Mississippi. Did you go back to Mississippi to work for MIB, or was that just coincidental?

Joe Spicer: 06:24

It’s coincidental. Yeah. You know, I was in mortgage. Like I said, I was in mortgages, and it was around about the time where the mortgage crisis happened. And so my company got bought out, and one of the options was to move to Chicago.

And Chicago’s a great city, but it was a little too big for me, especially with me, and my sight was getting worse over time. So as my sight was getting worse, I was like, well, I don’t want to try to navigate Chicago by myself. Yeah. So I decided to move back south, and once I moved back south, I went to a, there’s a training facility called Adam McBride that’s right across the way from MIB.

And I spoke with a gentleman who was a counselor, and he was like, well, ‘I can’t really refer you to this place because of certain rules. So I can’t really refer you to this place. But they are looking for someone to run their call center.’ So I ended up going over there, talked to Roy Granger and Mike Chew, and they were like, ‘Hey, you know, we’re trying to set this thing up. So you seem to have a lot of experience. So let’s go ahead and get it started.’ So that’s what happened.

Dean Thompson: 07:41

And who are they?

Joe Spicer: 07:42

Mike Roy was the deputy director at the time and Mike Chew was the executive director. So I spoke with them and we started the call center from the ground up. It was a little small room, and then we built out a 24-person call center unit, and we’ve been doing it ever since.

Dean Thompson: 08:01

That’s very nice. Yeah. So you have 24 people in the call center?

Joe Spicer: 08:05

Well, we had up to 12. We haven’t filled it up yet. And so basically we have contracts that go in and out because some contracts will come and some contracts will go, so we’re kind of looking for something a little more permanent. But we currently, we have a Medicare project that we do through our area agency on aging, and so we’ve been doing that for about seven years now. So we train folks to help seniors with Medicare.

Dean Thompson: 08:37

How satisfying is it to know that the call center and you have given people those jobs? I mean, you feel good about that? You must.

Joe Spicer: 08:45

I feel excellent about that, because so many people come to me about wanting to work and be relevant, because sometimes people can lose vision and they just don’t have the support with their family and so forth to feel like they can still do something. And my thing is and then when they go to apply for jobs, jobs can turn them down and say, ‘Hey, you know, you got all these skills.’ But when you go to the interview process, a lot of people tell me that once they go to the interview process, they never get a call again. And so with us, we seek those people to work. And so it’s very satisfying because those are the people that work for me are very happy with their jobs.

You know, and they feel very empowered and satisfied with working and being relevant and also having the – we provide every way to adapt so that they can work their job without feeling like they are burdened or someone doesn’t have time and so forth. So it’s very satisfying for me to allow for folks to get the opportunity. And a lot of people who have worked for me, even when the contract ends, it puts them into a realm where they’re able to move on to another job because they have the skill set from working with us in the call center.

Dean Thompson: 10:12

Do you have a specific example you can give me? Maybe one? You have to use their name if you don’t want to. Somebody who was just, I don’t know, was changed dramatically by working with the call center for you.

Joe Spicer: 10:22

Yes. Well, actually, one of the people who was an advocate here at MIB started with me in the call center. And then, when that project ended, that person particularly moved up to work as an advocate and work in our advocacy program locally, and then moved on to work for the city as the city’s advocates. And his name was Herbert Humphrey. And basically, he’s doing well with the city of Jackson.

So, you know, he started out with us at MIB.

Dean Thompson: 10:57

Very cool. So you brought up advocacy. That’s part of what you’re here to do right now this weekend in Washington, is it not?

Joe Spicer: 11:04

Absolutely, yes.

Dean Thompson: 11:05

What are you gonna do on Wednesday? Tell me please.

Joe Spicer: 11:07

Well, we are going to go Wednesday and see our two congresspeople in the morning. And then once we visit with those folks, we have our Senate meetings in the afternoon. So we have a break because we got a 10 to 11:30 slot for our congresspeople. And then we have late afternoons, 3 to 4 with our senators. And like I said, we’re definitely looking to reach out to all our congresspeople, but especially some of our senators who, you know, head committees that we really need their support for.

Dean Thompson: 11:43

Is this your first year being an advocate for NIB?

Joe Spicer: 11:47

Actually, it’s my first year on my own. Yeah. I went through the training classes in 2023 and 2024. So this is my first deal where I pretty much go on my own to set the appointments, nd, you know, handle everything myself.

Dean Thompson: 12:08

Are you looking forward to that? Or a bit nervous?

Joe Spicer: 12:11

I’m looking forward to it. I mean, it’s because – one of the things when we were in our class, because Rick and Vivian are excellent, and so one of the things in our class is that, these are people. Yeah, they’re regular people.

And what we, and I’m the expert with what’s going on with, you know, blind employment. I’m more of an expert. So basically, in my opinion, it’s like that’s a person that I need to relay what I feel to them and let them know that, basically, we need you to give us the support in order so that people like myself and people like others here who are so smart and so talented, can get the opportunity to display those talents.

Dean Thompson: 12:58

I understand there’s two major issues you want to talk about this year and have been talked about for many years, one of which is the 1% of the Department of Defense issue.

Joe Spicer: 13:07

It is so important, because with that 1%, because we’re still about half of a percent now, you know, they’ve already made a verbal commitment to us. But we need — sometimes you need to put things in writing so that we can have goals like, okay, right now we’re at 0.6%. Next year, we look to go to 0.65. And just to put those attainable goals there so that we can get up to the 1%, right? And when you don’t have it, when you don’t have a solid plan, things can go awry.

And we could be sitting at 0.5% for 10 years, you know. So we want to, so I think it’s very important to do that, to put an attainable goal in writing. So that way everyone knows this is what we need to get to. And when we don’t hit that mark then, you know, let’s get some answers. Let’s see what we can do to make this an attainable goal. Right.

Dean Thompson: 14:03

There’s also an issue with SSDI I understand. Right?

Joe Spicer: 14:06

Yes. SSDI.

Dean Thompson: 14:08

Which is what? What is SSDI again? I’m sorry.

Joe Spicer: 14:11

It’s social security. Well, social security disability. Right. The way it works with SSDI currently is they’ll give you a grace period during this. There’s an eligibility period when you first get on SSDI.

Okay. Well, you get a trial period and then you get an eligibility period. And then after that, after you reach your eligibility period, if someone can really cut you off of disability if you make a dollar above the limit.

Dean Thompson: 14:40

Cut you off completely.

Joe Spicer: 14:41

Completely.

Dean Thompson: 14:42

Yeah.

Joe Spicer: 14:42

And if you don’t know it, you can go years without knowing it until someone goes, hey, 10 years ago or four years ago, they gave you an extra dollar for a Christmas bonus. Yeah. And so now, for all these years after that, you have to pay us back. Yeah. And then you have to go through this whole process to try to prove that.

Dean Thompson: 15:05

The monthly is now $2,700.

Joe Spicer: 15:07

I think it’s about $2,700.

Dean Thompson: 15:08

Anything above that, you lose your SSDI benefits?

Joe Spicer: 15:11

Yes. Yes. If you were out – if you’re outside this period of eligibility.

Dean Thompson: 15:15

Yeah. So what change are you advocating or suggesting at this point?

Joe Spicer: 15:18

Right now what’s set up is that for every $2 that you make above the limit, right, they take a dollar from your SSDI check. It’s very similar to a program that they already have. So it’s not like they’re recreating the wheel. It’s just basically just like the people that turned 60.

Dean Thompson: 15:40

The early retirement program. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So pretend I’m your congressperson or your senator. What are you going to tell me? What’s the pitch? I’m sure you’ve gone over in your mind. Well, what are you going to say on Wednesday?

Joe Spicer: 15:53

On Wednesday, pretty much, I’m going to go to all my representatives. And of course, the main thing is the 1% AbilityOne goal.

And so for me, I’m going to – well, if you were my senator, we’re right here in Mississippi, we’ve been an agency since 1942. We’ve been serving the military and our warfighters since that time. During the pandemic, we were the people that were considered essential employees. And when it comes to the proof that we can do the job, we have shown you over and over and over again that we can. And the money is already set for the Department of Defense, and all we want to do is to be able to put more people to work that are capable, that want to go to work. And supporting us with this 1% goal is going to help us do that. And so we’re just asking for your support because I know you want to put more blind individuals, more people that want to work, to work as well. As you know, Mississippi is one of the highest percentage of blind people in the country.

Dean Thompson: 17:09

Really?

Joe Spicer: 17:09

Yes. Mississippi and Oklahoma. And so, basically, we need you. Because what you can do will help not only America in general, but your state in general. So that’s what I would kind of say with the 1%.

And of course, with the SSDI, I say something along the lines of what I was talking with you about.

Dean Thompson: 17:30

Yeah. So you’ve been doing this for a year or two? I mean, the organization’s been having these initiatives for quite a while, a long period of time. Does it get disturbing, depressing, or upsetting? You’re going back and banging on these people for the same issues over and over again, especially when they’re so, so commonsensical for all concerned? Does it bother you?

Joe Spicer: 17:46

It doesn’t bother me. I just know that anything that you want to do, sometimes you have to work for it. And changing the person’s mind is not the easiest thing to do. You know, and it could be just common sense to you or I, but the other person might see it from a different perspective. So I don’t look down on that or don’t say that they’re trying to be, you know, difficult. It’s just the fact that we are probably one of many that want to make change. And sometimes that change may not come easy. But what we look to do is to keep at it, because that’s the only thing you can do, is just keep at it. And as long as they keep seeing you, they go, ‘There go Joe again, you know, here he come, 1%.’ Yes, I know you know. But he’s going to hear it and, or she’s going to hear it right every time. And that’s what it takes. You know, they say, my mom always said a closed mouth don’t get fed.

Dean Thompson: 18:44

Yeah.

Joe Spicer: 18:45

So that’s my motto.

Dean Thompson: 18:47

That’s very good. And when you go home on Thursday or Friday or it is, what’s the best thing you can carry home with you from this experience this week? What do you think?

Joe Spicer: 18:55

Usually when I come to any of these meetings, the best thing I have is talking to other people from other NPAs. We have such a great group of, you know, people who work within the NIB community. And I enjoy every time I come here because it gives me motivation, because you find out so many, so many things outside of just advocacy. It’s what other agencies are doing, and some of the positive experiences from other places. And it just gives you that motivation and it gives you that spark that you need to, you know, go back and do a better job at what you’re doing, where you are.

Dean Thompson: 19:36

And for people, hopefully there are lots of new viewers, new listeners of the podcast out there. Help me with my war against acronyms. What is an NPA?

Joe Spicer: 19:43

Oh, I’m sorry.

Dean Thompson: 19:45

That’s okay.

Joe Spicer: 19:47

Non-profit agencies. Okay. It’s just great to see everyone out here doing something positive for folks who are blind and visually impaired.

Dean Thompson: 19:57

That’s very cool. So if somebody is listening to this now is a blind person in Mississippi, how do they get a hold of you? Is it a good idea if they reach out to you? Tell me how that goes about.

Joe Spicer: 20:06

Absolutely. You can always reach us at our phone number is 601-984-3200. My email address is j, just for Joe, and then Spicer, like spice with the R on the end, at msblind.org.

Dean Thompson: 20:24

Can we just spell that again from the top, Joe.

Joe Spicer: 20:25

jspicer@msblind.org

Dean Thompson: 20:31

That’s wonderful. Joe, thank you so much. We’re here at the Public Policy Forum in Washington. And we’re glad you joined us. And, Joe, many thanks for you coming to drop by.

Joe Spicer: 20:42

I appreciate you.

Dean Thompson: 20:42

And good luck on Wednesday. Thank you. You got it.

Outro: 20:45

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