Brian:  Not every day is going to be a perfect day, but it’s how you react to those fears or to those days that are not the most perfect. If you can learn one lesson, gain one skill that you didn’t have yesterday and apply that next time you have the same opportunities, that’s what you need to do.

Narrator: Welcome to the Heard and Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds, and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: This is a special episode recorded at the 2023 National Industries for the Blind Conference in Washington DC. Please excuse any audio quirks as we capture these conversations, but we guarantee the wisdom is pure gold.

Welcome back to the Heard and Empowered podcast. Today I’m super excited because I’ve got a very special guest with me to chat a little bit about his career and I would like to welcome you to Mr. Brian Petraits. Brian, welcome to the show.

Brian:  Thank you.

Hoby: Glad to have you here. Brian, what’s your current place of employment and what do you do for them?

Brian:  I am the director of manufacturing for Bosma Enterprises out of Indianapolis, Indiana.

Hoby: Very cool. So, as we talked about a little bit, this show is all about showing people what’s possible out there, particularly with jobs within agencies supported by National Industries for The Blind. And in order to get that started and use your story as a lens of inspiration for folks, can you just tell me a little bit about your background? You know, how you even got into this world of blindness, and how you ended up with Bosma, and what you do.

Brian:  Absolutely. Well, I’m 38 years old. I have retinitis pigmentosa, so a degenerative eye condition. When I was younger, up until I was about age 18, I had usable vision. I was always considered legally blind, but I did have some usable vision. I could read large print. I played sports at the middle school and high school level. I was able to navigate without a cane, a little bit of modification, but I was able to independently navigate pretty well, as good as you could with low vision.

As I was finishing up my high school time, I really had a decrease in my vision. And myself and my family, we knew that that’s a possibility with the RP condition. And currently I have no vision whatsoever. So it went from being able to see fairly well to now nothing, and that was a pretty quick decrease.

Hoby: Yeah. By the way, were you ever able to drive? It doesn’t sound like probably so because you –

Brian:  Never legally. Never legally able to drive.

Hoby: I love it. But I know that’s a big – I was born blind, and I know for people that have driven, when they lose that ability, it’s a big loss.

Brian:  Yes. And you’re going through those formidable years, 15, 16, 17 years old. And I had some vision, but I knew, and my family knew, it would not have been safe for me to drive or even attempt driving. So psychologically that was definitely tough. All my friends were getting their licenses, and I was not.

But I’ll tell you, the community in which I grew up in and love so much, love so much that my wife and I now reside in the exact same community now, was very supportive. And I had a great set of friends that made sure that I was still able to take part in all the social activities and get me picked up even though I was not able to drive. But that was tough.

Hoby: No, that’s tough. It was tough for me too, even as someone who was born blind. When I saw my friends getting their licenses and getting that independence it’s like I wish I had that. But what’s funny is there are elements of learning to travel and orientation mobility that build our confidence the same way.

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: For me, one of those was I knew how to get from my high school campus to the local bus depot and downtown. I could get anywhere downtown. And when I first, for the very first time independently walked home from my high school after spending a lot of time learning the route, I walked myself to and from school every day after that. And it was like this light bulb went up like, hey, I know how to get to the local bus depot, which can get me to any city I want. I can get home. I can get to school. I can go anywhere I want.

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: Do you remember any of those things that happened to you where you were like, “Hey, I really do have my freedom” as you grew up?

Brian:  I would say a couple of things. One, even though I was not able and still am not able to drive, I feel like I can contribute in many other ways to the driving experience. And so, I will take the time to research the route and I’ll understand, hey, we’re going to turn left here, there should be a landmark here. So that way the driver I’m with, whether that be a friend, a family member, my wife, they can concentrate on driving, and I can help give directions.

Hoby: Perfect.

Brian:  And I can still feel like I am a part of that route planning process, from a drive standpoint. And I know GPS is on everybody’s smartphones now, so that’s taken a little bit of that away.

Hoby: Yeah, but it still helps.

Brian:  But still, hey, I’m going to do the research and know, okay, when we get to the hotel, here’s where you’re going to want to park. GPS isn’t going to tell you that. So doing a little bit of legwork or research, and then that allows for me to feel like I’m contributing in a value added way to the driving experience. But some of those other kind of a-ha! moments, first time traveling independently on an airplane.

Hoby: Yes, I remember those.

Brian:  And kind of a funny story. When I went off to college, I went to Purdue University. And that was right at the time where, again, I was losing a ton of vision. And so I had gone from never using a cane to picking up a cane and starting to use a cane. I subsequently now have a guide dog, but then I was using a cane. And socially I didn’t know what to expect. I’m going into a new environment, a college, I’m using a cane for the first time. But the thing I was most scared about, it wasn’t the classes, it wasn’t calculus or physics. It was how am I going to get through the cafeteria, right?

Hoby: Oh my God, yeah.

Brian:  And I was scared. I had no idea what I was going to do because there were four or five different cafeterias, but they were all buffet style, and I was so scared.

Hoby: I don’t like buffets either.

Brian:  Exactly, exactly. But before classes had started someone said, hey, why don’t you just talk to the kitchen staff? And I was like, huh, that’s probably a good idea, let’s just confront the fears.

Hoby: There you go.

Brian:  And so I went to the cafeteria and literally within 30 seconds, I talked to one of the managers and they said, “Oh, Brian, all you need to do is just ask for help. We’ll help make sure you get through the line. And we’ll make sure if you want extra of this or no tomato on that, we’ll help you.”

And that right there was that big, you talked about the a-ha! moment, that was the a-ha! moment that I needed at the right time in my life to just say, okay, it’s okay to ask for help. Because if I don’t ask for help here’s what’s going to happen? I’m going to be fumbling through the cafeteria line. I’m going to knock into things. I’m going to get 16 pieces of lettuce and no meat on my sandwich with the tongs. I’m going to embarrass myself.

Hoby: Right.

Brian:  And, okay, that’s one meal. How am I going to do this later on for dinner or tomorrow? And so just asking for help just gave me peace of mind. But then the bigger picture I had better understood, okay, it’s okay to ask for help.

Hoby: Exactly.

Brian:  I want to be independent, but there are times where you need to ask for a little bit of help to better understand your environment or be able to get what you need.

Hoby: It’s true. And for all of our listeners out there who are BVI or who have a family member, or relative, or friend who’s BVI, you know, there is never shame in asking for help. I guarantee you, you think in your mind, and we’ve all been through this, as Brian just explained, I’ve been through it myself, you think in your mind, “Oh my gosh, if I ask for help, people are going to judge me. They’re going to think, oh, this guy is blind, he can’t do anything.”

People don’t think that way. It’s like, “Yeah, I’m happy to help out, just let me know what you need.” And if they think that way, if they judge and think, “Oh yeah, I didn’t think this guy was going to be able to do it on his own,” we’ll figure that out. And we’ll be able to educate them and say, “Hey, I can do 99% of things on my own. This is just one more little extra assistance.”

And if you think about any person in any kind of job, we all have help, right? The CEO of an organization has help. They are not afraid to hire people and ask for help. If someone has a job in a cafeteria, it’s their job to help you.

Brian:  That is absolutely correct. That was the piece of advice I was given, “Hey, we are paid to help you and help any student that needs extra help. And so, ask.”

Hoby: It was also funny, when I was in college. I was the only one that would go to my office hours in these big lecture hall type classes. All the students would kind of go to their TAs if they really needed help. They never went to talk to the lecturer. So I had an hour every week with these lecturers of these big chemistry classes, and I’d sit down and chat with them, get to know them and learn the subject matter from the person who’s writing the test.

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: And what’s really funny about that, too, is guess what? When you need a letter of recommendation, they remember you.

Brian:  They do.

Hoby: They know who you are. And the person who helped you in the cafeteria, they could become a great friend, they could become a significant other.

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: Who knows?

Brian:  Yep.

Hoby: Never be afraid to ask for help.

Brian:  Yep.

Hoby: So let’s jump a little further on into the career stuff. So tell me about going from this, you know, you ended up in high school, graduated doing just fine, had low vision. Picked up a cane when you first started college. But what’s next in your journey? In your employment journey and education journey.

Brian:  I realized very quickly, and Purdue did a great job of instilling in each student the importance of work experience. And that’s the case whether you have a disability or you don’t. Work experience is so valuable on a multitude of levels. And so during my freshman year of college, I went into an industrial engineering kind of technology STEM type of field. And I understood, hey, this is internships, co-ops, work experience is so important.

So, I began the internship application process with a number of different companies. There were some career fairs that Purdue hosted online. This is in the early 2000s, so online is kind of coming on board, but it’s not fully what it is today. And so that was a tough process. Not only are you trying to navigate different applications and get those sorts of things in, but you’re still coming to grips with understanding how I’m going to work and function as an individual who is blind.

And so that was some tough times in that I did not have a lot of success early on in my applications and interviews for those summer internships. But each one I kind of self-reflected and said, “Okay, here’s what I need to do better.” You know, little things. Okay, well, I’m going to go scout out that interview room the day before, so I understand the layout, so I’m not coming in the first time kind of fresh. Or I’m going to make sure I’m there 20 minutes early, instead of being five minutes earlier, just to gather myself.

Hoby: Right.

Brian:  The former CEO of NIB Jim Gibbons and Kathy Gallagher, they had taken a trip out to Purdue. Jim was being honored with an award. And Jim gave a presentation at Purdue, and this was during my freshman year. And I was like, oh, wow! It was promoted as blind CEO going to give a presentation. I was like, oh, that’s cool. I’m blind and someday I’d love to maybe be a CEO. So let me go hear what he has to say.

And I went to the presentation, and afterward, I had the great opportunity of meeting Jim and Kathy. And from those interactions then, I better understood what the NIB program was and that there were affiliated agencies throughout the country. And so, we began talking and they said, “Hey, what are your plans for the summer?” I was like, “Well, I’d love to work.” And they said, “Hey, let’s talk about this a little bit more.”

Hoby: Wow! And Bosma is in Indianapolis.

Brian:  Yep, an hour down the road. They said, “Hey, we’ve got an agency an hour down the road.” And I was like, I have never heard of Bosma. I’ve never heard of National Industries for the Blind. And so I’m just doing some research and some more discussions, and it ended up being that I was able to do an internship with Bosma between my freshman and sophomore years of college.

And that right there, that opportunity was what I needed to jumpstart, not only my personal career, but just focus me in on, from an academic standpoint, okay, here’s what I’m passionate about, here’s what I’m interested in. Hey, I’ve gone out into the workforce, I understand what it’s going to take to be successful. I understand what sort of accommodations I’m going to need. And that was just the springboard into the latter years of college.

Hoby: Right.

Brian:  I was able to obtain a couple other internships outside of Bosma during the other summers.

Hoby: Sure and see what you really wanted to do.

Brian:  Exactly. And give me a little bit more experience, diversify some of my background. Diversity by geography, I worked in some different areas of the country. And so it was that summer internship between my freshman and sophomore year with Bosma was really what springboarded my career and, ultimately, maybe as I was finishing up my undergrad made me really think, okay, I’d love to go to work for Bosma. And so at that time I kind of looked and saw, okay, what kind of positions does Bosma have open? And thankfully there was a position open. I interviewed for it and was hired upon graduation.

Hoby: Wow! That is incredible. You were able to figure out what you liked about Bosma, what you maybe liked or didn’t like so much about other programs based on internships that had nothing to do with blindness, landed a career where you were embraced, not only accommodated, but really celebrated for being a blind guy.

Brian:  It’s so cool. That’s what it’s all about.

Hoby: And what was your beginning job at Bosma?

Brian:  So I came in and worked in a production position, production leadership position, and started off just really my boss at the time said, “Hey, let’s really learn how our current processes work. And we’re not going to come in here as I know you’ve learned all these theories and such in college…”

Hoby: Let me just backstep. Your degree is in?

Brian:  Industrial engineering technology.

Hoby: Right, so manufacturing is like right in your wheelhouse.

Brian:  Exactly. Yep, the business side of engineering, processes, efficiencies, things like that.

Hoby: Totally in your wheelhouse.

Brian:  And so that was some of the best advice early on was, okay, hey, let’s understand the process, and then what can we do to make things better? And so I really spent the first couple of years helping wherever I could. And to this day I still make sure that I spend at least one to two hours every day on the production floor, you know, hands-on. One, not being able to see, it gives me an understanding of the process, but two, it allows for me to make sure that I am engaged with all employees of all levels of the organization.

And so, by doing that early on in my career, I really got to establish a good relationship with a number of employees. And here I’m 23 coming in out of college, and you’re interacting, like you would in any other work environment, with somebody that’s been there for 40 years that’s 60 years old. And you don’t know anything, you’re just coming in here, I’ve been here for 40 years. And so it gave me the opportunity to build some trust, to gain some skills, both tactical skills but also see strategically, okay, where do we need to go long term?

And over the course of the years, the leadership opportunities kind of progressively became more and more able to embrace some of those. And the neat thing about Bosma is that through the leadership, has everything been roses? Absolutely not. I’ve been able to learn on the job, okay, hey, this has been successful, and those things were not successful, okay, let’s not make that mistake again. Or let’s learn from it. What can we take from it and apply it so that we can do better next time? And that culture is promoted like, okay, you’ve got to take some chances sometimes.

Hoby: Learn how to run the company by looking at what doesn’t work, as well as what does.

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: Yeah, so important. And such a wise business move, by the way. I’m a business guy myself, and there’s so much that you learn. You learn more from failure than you do from success.

Brian:  Yep.

Hoby: Yeah. And you said you’re the director of manufacturing now.

Brian:  That is correct.

Hoby: And how long have you held that title?

Brian:  For about four years now.

Hoby: That’s wonderful. What do you guys make at Bosma?

Brian:  So we are a light manufacturer and distributor of disposable medical equipment. So our primary customer, our largest customer is the VA network.

Hoby: Gloves.

Brian:  If it’s examination gloves, surgical gloves, operating room kits. Essentially, if it’s a disposable medical piece of equipment, we want to be providing it to the customers.

Hoby: Love that.

Brian:  So we’re at just under 200 employees and about 90… 95 million dollars worth of revenue on the industry side of the business. Now, we also offer a rehabilitation side of the business.

Hoby: Which is funded by the business.

Brian:  Absolutely. We just drive that revenue or those profits right back into the rehab side so that we can make sure that we are fulfilling our mission of lowering that unemployment rate of individuals who are blind.

Hoby: So you might not be the guy in the operating room, but you’re still saving lives with the equipment you make and that you oversee being made every day.

Brian:  Absolutely. And we got to get it there on time.

Hoby: Right, if you don’t get it there on time, the contract is going somewhere else.

Brian:  Exactly, exactly.

Hoby: Yeah, that’s the fun of it. And you have, I’m sure, quite a few direct reports on the manufacturing side of the business.

Brian:  We do.

Hoby: You do personally.

Brian:  That is correct. Yes, so Bosma has really built a really good model of employing and empowering qualified individuals at all levels of the organization who are blind.

Hoby: So good.

Brian:  And so, on the manufacturing side of things we have about 70, 75 employees. And of those, we have 10 supervisors. Eight of those supervisors do have a visual impairment. And all levels in all jobs, we try and make as accessible as possible through low-cost solutions with jig and fixtures to a little bit more higher tech, some technology solutions, all the way up to in our warehouse operation. We operate turret trucks that are wire guided so that individuals who may have low vision are still able to operate the forklift and material movement equipment.

Hoby: So how does a turret truck work?

Brian:  So a turret truck, think of a groove in the floor. We’ve got a line buried in that groove. And so the turret truck will hook onto that line and then it will go up and down. It cannot go side to side, but it makes sure that you are staying as straight as possible because it’s wire guided.

Hoby: So you can drive a piece of machinery.

Brian:  That is correct.

Hoby: So a blind forklift operator can move pallets on the turret truck?

Brian:  That is correct.

Hoby: Okay, so that’s wild.

Brian:  It is amazing. It’s awesome.

Hoby: When you say up and down, you mean forward and back not side to side, right?

Brian:  Correct. Yes, we can go forward and back, but then also we can go vertically as well to get up to the second… You ride up with the product to pull the product out if it’s on the second or third level.

Hoby: Got it, so you’ll ride up actually—as the forklift operator—in the turret.

Brian:  In the turret, yep.

Hoby: You’ll ride right up to that level, the forklift will flatten, you grab the product, ride it back down.

Brian:  Yep. And then you can take it to the end of the aisle and set it down or to wherever the end of the guide wire is and set it down.

Hoby: Right, and then renegotiate the forklift to the next perpendicular guide.

Brian:  Yep, exactly. And so it opens up some different sorts of career opportunities.

Hoby: So, listeners, I just need to point this out. With an innovation that is extremely practical and not horribly expensive at all, blind people are driving forklifts and operating forklifts. And not only manufacturing products using accessible machinery, but packing and moving the product around. Even my mind, and I’ve been blind for my life of 36 years, and my mind is blown by what you’re telling me, that blind people are running forklifts. That’s amazing.

Brian:  It’s something we do each and every single day. And we’re proud of it. But it’s something that we don’t even think about because it’s ingrained in our culture from our CEO and our executive leadership team, where multiple individuals are blind on those teams. They just ingrain that if someone is qualified or willing to be trained, we want to make sure they have the job that is best fit for their skill set and is going to best help the organization move forward.

Hoby: And guess what, you’re a blind guy and someone who is reporting to you better not use the excuse of I’m blind.

Brian:  That is the wrong excuse to use. That does not fly. Even on the home front, it’s like I have an amazing wife and two amazing young children, but I’m going to wash the dishes. I may do it a little bit differently, but the dishes got to get done.

Hoby: They’ve got to get done. The counter is going to be clean when I’m done.

Brian:  The house has got to get vacuumed, laundry has got to get folded. When the kids were younger, my wife is a nurse and so she would be working long shifts every couple of days. And so, okay, hey, kids have got to get fed, diapers have to be changed, laundry has to be done, kids have to get to school. They’ve got to get to sports practices. And so yeah, there’s no excuses. I mean, yes, would being able to jump in my car help? That would be…

Hoby: Of course.

Brian:  I’d love to do that, but that’s not a reality right now. So okay, hey, these other things, they still have to get done. So let’s figure out a way to get them done.

Hoby: Get it done. To anyone who’s listening who is thinking, gosh, these guys are out there, and they’ve got spouses and kids and all this stuff, you don’t have to have a spouse or kids or anything. You can be at whatever level. As long as you take the initiative, and be your best self, and do your personal best to get even little things done, you’re already well on your way. If you’ve never fried an egg before: today, don’t wait, go into your kitchen, get a little frying pan out, put a little olive oil in the bottom and cook yourself a fried egg. Just do it and see how good it feels when you’re done, right?

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: Just give it a try.

Brian:  And the grill. I mean, same thing throwing a burger on the grill. Hey, start out with a hot dog, you’re not going to mess it up. I mean, okay, it’s a little burnt, but you’ve got to try. You absolutely have to try. And over time you’re going to get better and better, more confident, you’re going to figure out what works for you. And before you know it, you’re going to be grilling burgers for the neighbors.

Hoby: Right, because people are going to get to know you as the person to go to.

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: And that’s the way it is with work too. You’re not going to come in knowing all the skills that you need to manufacture a nitrile glove. But guess what? You’re going to get the technology training and the travel training and everything you need at your level, at your speed. And you’ll be there before you know it.

Brian, it’s been a huge honor. I could talk to you for days on end. I know it because we have so many similarities and so much good stuff and commonality to talk about. We’re running a little short on time and I’ve got a question for you. What would you say, what advice would you give anyone who is really tempted to either get out and get the skills to live an independent life or to start working and get off benefits?

And the other group you can think about here, and the advice can be the same for all three groups, is a family or friend of someone who’s blind or visually impaired who is nervous and might have low expectations of what that person can do. What would you tell them?

Brian:  Number one is: understand that there are going to be some fears and not every day is going to be a perfect day. But it’s how you react to those fears, or to those days that are not the most perfect. If you can learn one lesson, gain one skill that you didn’t have yesterday and apply that the next time you have the same opportunities, that’s what you need to do. But the key is, is just making that first step. Just like what we talked about with frying an egg, it’s got to start somewhere.

Hoby: Yep.

Brian:  And you’ve got to just have the confidence to make it happen. There are successful individuals who are blind at all levels of a number of different organizations. And you don’t have to aspire to be the CEO tomorrow, but just being able to have the ability to get to work, do your best, get home, have a meal, those little things are what get you on the road to independence. And making sure that these are choices you want to make and set goals, work towards those goals, and then have no regrets. And make sure you laugh along the way because there’s going to be some fun or funny things that are going to happen. And you’ve got to have fun.

Hoby: You’ve got to have fun. If you’ll laugh about it six months from now, laugh about it now.

Brian:  Exactly. Exactly. And then the last thing is to always build community with those around you. Get involved. And even if it’s a volunteer basis or something like that, get involved. Let people know who you are as an individual and that, hey, I’m here to help. I’m here to serve. I’m here to be of assistance. And people are going to quickly realize that, hey, you’re a volunteer that just happens to be blind. Or you’re an employee or a friend, oh, and by the way, you’re blind. But people are going to know you as that person before they recognize, or they understand that you are blind and such.

Hoby: And before you know it, you will find that you are needed.

Brian:  Absolutely.

Hoby: Not just someone that’s there, that’s around, you are needed, and you want people to rely on you. And you know what else? Just to add to what you said, I thought that was brilliant, Brian. Just to add to that, when you get out in the world, you start to meet people, you make friends, you realize you’re not alone. You realize you can do whatever it is you want to do. We’re all amazing in our own right, not because we’re blind, because we’re human. Being born on this earth, the chances of that are super low. It’s amazing. You’re not alone. And what you have, and your personal best is enough.

This is the Heard and Empowered podcast and I’m so excited to have had this great conversation with Brian Petraits. Thank you so much, Brian.

Brian:  Thanks for the opportunity.

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