Soraya: The amazing part is there are so many people that are willing to help. That’s what you’re going to find amazing when you raise your hand and say I need a little bit of help. You’d be surprised how many people really want to help.

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: Happy Wednesday and welcome back to the Heard & Empowered podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in today. We have a guest that we’re bringing you that needs no introduction, but just an amazing legend of the craft and all the amazing work that NIB does.

Before we get into today’s show, I just want to thank our listener base so much for commenting on each podcast, for being involved with it. If you think someone should hear about it and know about us, send the podcast their way. If it’s someone who is new to blindness and might want to think about employment, if it’s someone who might know someone who’s blind or who’s losing their eyesight and you can help them out, just anything you can do. Or if people just like the stories that we tell here because they’re very fun and inspirational stories, share the podcast, get the message out there.

And we thank you so much for the reviews that you offer us. If we deserve it, please give us a five-star review and make sure to leave a comment, even one word will do.

And with that, I’m so excited to get into the episode that we’re featuring today. It is a tremendous honor to have in the studio with me, Soraya Correa, the CEO of National Industries for the Blind and someone who is just an incredible leader in our world, in our industry. Soraya, welcome to the show.

Soraya: Thank you so much, Hoby. It’s a pleasure and a privilege to be here with you today.

Hoby: Well, the honor is all ours. And I really want to get to know a little bit, before we talk about your involvement with NIB, which is fairly recent and your hopes and dreams for the future. I would love to hear about the person behind the mission because you are a leader. You have done so much in your professional life, but just give us a snapshot of what you did before coming to NIB. And then if you can tell us how you got into this work, this amazing work in the government originally, I would love to hear that from you.

Soraya: Sure. Thank you so much, that’s a great question. I spent a little over 40 years in federal service, retired in July of 2021. My last position was that of Senior Procurement Executive or Chief Procurement Officer at the Department of Homeland Security. And I was there from the beginning of Homeland Security, from its creation, which was truly an exciting opportunity.

And I was able to accomplish many things there from a transformative standpoint, changing the way we do procurement, how we engage with industry and other initiatives to improve the work life of our contracting professionals and ensure that we achieve good, strong mission outcomes. Because at the end of the day, that’s what all these jobs are about, it’s about the missions that we serve and how well we serve them.

But I got my start in the acquisitions profession in government. My first job was that of a clerk typist. I was looking for a job, I really wasn’t looking for a career, but I landed at the General Services Administration Public Buildings Service in the Construction Contracts Group. From there, I started studying in school at night, the contracting profession and studying. And my father had been in this profession, so I knew a little bit about it.

I decided to apply for a job at the Department of Navy. They were looking for a JS-12, I was a little JS-5. But I applied for this position and I had a really good interview with the gentleman who was in charge. And in the course of the interview, he asked me a very technical question, a very technical procurement question, and I answered it in the interview, but then I went home that weekend and I wrote him a white paper on the actual solution, how he could go about addressing the issue and delivered it to his office the next day.

A few hours later, he called me because he was very fascinated, number one, by the initiative that I took to solve the problem for him. But more importantly, how I handled myself. How I conducted myself, not only in the interview, but in the writing of the white paper. So that led to me starting in the contracting profession as a JS-5. And, of course, I rose to the ranks of Senior Executive Service, as I mentioned, at the Department of Homeland Security.

And I will tell you, my entire career has been based on taking those chances, raising my hand when somebody had a problem and saying, “Here’s how we’re going to solve it.” And sometimes not taking the really exciting project, but taking that project which posed the biggest challenges and needed the most work.

Hoby: And what’s amazing about that style of taking on the things that are the hardest to solve is that a lot of people don’t necessarily want to take on those challenging or difficult issues and challenge themselves to solve the problem. But what I always say, living in this world as a blind PhD chemist and now entrepreneur, is that when we challenge ourselves, when we push ourselves hard and figure out how to solve things that a lot of people think of as unsolvable, the success and the gratification is tremendous.

And I think people notice, people who are in positions of mentorship or in positions of hiring notice when we take chances and when we take risks. And they want people like yourself on their team because you’re willing to step out of the box and go the extra mile and literally stick your neck out and say, “How are we going to do this?”

Soraya: That’s right. Think bigger.

Hoby: Yeah.

Soraya: And I tell you that generally people who do that also bring something else to the table, and that’s the right attitude. And attitude matters, right?

Hoby: It’s so important.

Soraya: Your passion, your commitment, the can-do mentality that we’re going to find a way through this. “We’re going to figure this out. We’ll work with you to figure this out.” I think that matters to people. I know it matters to me and that’s the way I’ve always approached every opportunity. Even when the odds were not in our favor, I always tried to find that optimistic place. That place that says, “We can do this guys. Let’s go charge. Let’s go figure this out.”

Hoby: It’s incredible. And for me, a big part of that attitude is not complaining. Just saying, “Hey, we can work this out. We can get this done. If we talk to each other and we believe in what our potential is, we can do anything we want.”

Soraya: That’s right, let’s find a way.

Hoby: Let’s find a way.

Soraya: And every, you know, sometimes people focus on just the problem and they don’t think about the big picture. Sometimes worrying about that one little problem and not thinking about the bigger picture, the bigger objective that we’re trying to achieve. And I always pride myself in saying that I think bigger than the problem that’s before me, that I try to understand what is the mission? What are we ultimately trying to achieve and how do I get us there?

Hoby: And one interesting thing that I’ve learned growing up as a blind person is that when you visualize things in your mind, I’ve never been able to see anything, so everything is something I imagine. And the way that I imagine spaces as looking from above, sort of looking down on the bigger picture is what I’ve brought into my business life. So it’s exactly what you’re saying. If you can look at the whole forest and not focus on that one little tree that might be yellowing or dead or have a problem, so much more is possible because you see the bigger picture of what’s out there and what the opportunities are.

Soraya: Exactly. And that’s the role of leadership.

Hoby: It is.

Soraya: That’s the role of leadership. Leadership is not there to solve the problem. It’s there to help people see that bigger picture, envision themselves, see themselves solving that problem, and know that they have the support. That’s what leaders do. We don’t solve day-to-day problems. We provide guidance. We provide direction. I like to say we mentor our teams to help them see how they can get across that finish line, how they can accomplish that objective. And along the way, we try to remove the barriers and create support infrastructures to help them get the job done. That’s the role of leadership.

Hoby: And empowering those who we work with to be their best selves and to see, like you said, to see the bigger picture and come up with the solution that we may never have even thought of.

Soraya: Exactly.

Hoby: I love building a team where you can just guide and mentor and then they come up with things. I’ve had people come to my office and sit down and tell me things and I’m like, I had no idea, and you’re exactly right. This might lead us into a little bit of a conversation about diversity and getting different opinions at the table and how important, I want to hear your thoughts on what the power is of having people from different walks of life, different places, different socioeconomic backgrounds, maybe different ethnicities, different levels of eyesight or ability.

What do you think having a room full of people who all approach things a little bit differently, how does that provide a game-changing advantage to a business?

Soraya: So all of us come from different places and we have different experiences and we took different approaches to our careers. And what I like to look for is that diversity. I believe that diversity is extremely important, and I’ll tell you why. Because you look at the world from the lens that you came from, right? You think of things differently.

If you come from a really good, I’m going to say strong, research, education background, you’re going to think in that vein. You’re going to look for the opportunities to research. But if you’re somebody who’s used to working with their hands, you might say, “Hey, here are the mechanics of solving this problem.” And it is that discussion, that engagement that happens with those varying backgrounds that brings you to the right solution at the right time for the team.

And I want to emphasize the importance of that team, by the way, because one of the things that happens with a team is making sure you find your right place in that team. Maybe you’re not the writer, the person that writes very well, but you’re the person that can dissect the problem. Maybe you’re not the person that knows how to analyze the problem. But my point is every member of the team has a place. And just because you start out in one spot, maybe we find out that’s not your strength. Maybe you have other strengths and we move you around.

And that’s what diversity brings for you, that we start to look at each other and figure out how do we fit? How do we all come together and fit? And I will say that as people talk about diversity, the thing I focus on is making sure that we help people, that we make sure we help people feel comfortable being a part of the team. You have to know that you’re appreciated, that you’re valued, and that you are truly a part of the team, that you bring something to the table. And that’s an important element of teamwork.

Hoby: Soraya, what I’m hearing you say, I just love that you and I are 110% aligned on leadership and the ways to be daring and step out. What I hear you say too is that one of your superpowers is looking at your team and helping them identify their own superpowers, identify what they are so good at. And taking your team’s passions, what they love doing, and marrying it with what they’re good at doing to bring people to a place they never imagined they could go.

Soraya: That’s exactly right. That’s what innovation is all about, by the way. When I was at the Department of Homeland Security, I created the first ever procurement innovation lab. And nobody even knew what a procurement innovation lab was because nobody ever heard the words procurement and innovation together, especially in government.

Hoby: Tell us about that. Sure.

Soraya: But what I was trying to achieve, and what I’ve always believed, is that the best reforms, the best fixes to problems come from the people who do the work. And so what I wanted to create was a forum for people to bring ideas on how we could improve the procurement process. Not only make it better, but speed it up a bit, right? Because we are buying products and services to support the folks who respond to the mission, the first responders, the war fighters. That’s who we take care of in government, okay?

That’s who procurement’s customer ultimately is. It’s really that war fighter, that first responder, that person that goes out to the emergency to help people find food, water, whatever the situation may be. And so we need to be a little bit more agile. We need to be a little bit more flexible. And in my career, and I worked on quite a few interesting and challenging opportunities, I never failed the mission. I always got the job done. Whether they needed it in one day, or I had 60 days to do it, or I had six months to do it, I could achieve it within the confines of those regulations that everybody says are so hard.

And my theory was, it’s hard because you make it hard because you’re afraid to take risks. You’re afraid to interpret those regulations. And you’re afraid to go sit down with people and challenge their perspective, and do it in a professional way, of course.

So what the Procurement Innovation Lab was all about was saying, “Let’s sit down and talk about how we can improve the process. Give me your ideas. What would you do differently? And let’s take a look at that idea and see if we can shape it, test it, and if it works, we publish the technique. And if it doesn’t work, we publish why it didn’t work, what we need to do differently. Let’s learn from one another.”

Hoby: This is brilliant.

Soraya: And I want to add one thing. I started that with one individual, because it was not for us to do the procurement. It was for us to guide people on how to do the procurements.

Hoby: And that is what the scientific method should be, is trying something. If it works, great. Tell people why it works. If it doesn’t work, to me, that’s even more valuable.

Soraya: Yes.

Hoby: Why doesn’t this work? And I mean, I can think about so many, so many industries. Every industry needs innovation like this. It needs to be thought about and dissected and pulled apart.

Soraya: Grassroots innovation. Innovation doesn’t happen from the leader to the staff, it happens from the staff to the leader, from the bottom up. The people who do the day-to-day work probably have the best ideas on how you can do things, how you can improve things, how you can move a process along faster, steps that you can eliminate. Those are the folks doing the work. They know more than those of us that are sitting behind the desk.

Hoby: And as leaders, if we don’t listen, we’re really causing ourselves problems.

Soraya: Exactly. Exactly.

Hoby: You mentioned something, I want to go back to your work at Homeland Security and the fact that you started there and basically grew that agency to what it is, or that department to what it is in many ways. But I just want to harken back to something that you mentioned when talking about the innovation group, is that things are only hard when your brain tells you they’re hard.

And to me, it’s incredible how much our brain and our mindset guides us as leaders, as team members, as workers, no matter what. If we let the barriers go and we just say, “Whatever it is I can do, I’m going to figure out a way to do it. If there’s a will, there’s a way.” You literally can do anything you want in the world. And my experience with that comes from a lot of people not understanding blindness and saying, “Oh man, I don’t know how you do that.” Even I couldn’t study chemistry and get a graduate degree in chemistry. I hear that all the time. And this person isn’t trained as a scientist.

And the only reason they think it’s impossible is because their brain isn’t letting them explore what really is possible. So what are your thoughts on, this is a very general question and I’m sorry it could be a bit ambiguous, and if I can clarify it in any way, let me know. What are your thoughts on the right mindset to achieve success?

Soraya: So first of all, we are taught barriers. We’re not born with barriers. Look at children. Look at children and how they play and how they behave and how they interact. They’re open minds. They’re open canvases, if you think about it. And it’s over time that they adopt their behaviors based on what they’re taught. So we are taught to limit ourselves.

Let’s not fool ourselves that this is something that just happens just because somebody told us we couldn’t or we shouldn’t or what have you. I come from the mindset, and the mindset that I try to put in people’s minds is you can do anything you want to as long as you decide you want to do it, that you want to strive for it. It doesn’t mean it’s going to be easy. I’m not saying that, but I’m saying anything you want to achieve, you can achieve. You just have to decide that that’s what you want to do and that you’re going to go out and get the resources that you need to do that.

I chose to focus on being a good leader. I won’t say great. I’d love to be great, but I don’t know, I leave that for others to judge.

Hoby: I think you’re great.

Soraya: Thank you. But I chose to be a good leader and that meant that I had to think about what it takes to be a good leader. And I had to go out and meet the right people and get the right mentors and learn from the people that I worked for, good and bad, and listen to people and read books and attend classes. I chose to do these things because I can. I can, I had to go get the resources though to do that. And that’s what I tell people.

Now, of course, you know, I’m not going to go become a rocket scientist tonight. There are some things you just can’t do overnight, right? You might want to start a little earlier in your career. But what I’m getting at is it’s all in the attitude that you have, the desire that you have, the willingness that you have to learn and to reach out to people who can help you, which I’m going to dovetail into something that I didn’t even know I had when I was coming up because it was like over 40 years ago. Mentors.

I had mentors in my career, I just didn’t know that that’s what they were originally. I figured that out probably 20 years into my service. But those are the people that help you. Help you understand what’s the art of the possible, what’s the art of the possible within your own career or career field. And they help you find other resources that can help you.

So everything is doable within reason. And what I will say is I think opportunities keep getting better. 40 years ago it was a lot harder for me coming up through the ranks than it probably is for a Soraya today.

Hoby: Interesting. And do you think a lot of that is based on people relaxing their expectations of what certain groups should and shouldn’t do?

Soraya: I think it’s a little bit of that, but I think it’s also creating more opportunities. You know, today, when I think about government for example, we have numerous executive leadership programs, training opportunities, and actual formal mentoring programs to help people understand how to be mentored, how to mentor folks, how to develop as a leader, how to develop the skills that you need to work in your professional environment.

Whether you’re working in a machine shop or behind a desk, you have to have certain skills that don’t come from a textbook, that aren’t the technical skills to do the day-to-day job. And we have to teach those skills. And I think, I know that the government and industry do focus on that, and they are training people a lot better on what I call those soft skill sets. The ability to talk, the ability to have conversations, difficult ones as well as good ones, the ability to interact with one another, and the ability to be a part of a team. They teach those things now. When I was coming up, they weren’t teaching those that much.

Hoby: And just harkening back to a little bit ago when we were talking about your mindset, about that willingness to learn and also the willingness to reach out and tell people when we don’t know something, find the people who do and to learn from them. I don’t want to get too political here by any means, but I find that more and more folks that say, “We should have these rights, we should have these privileges, we should have this, that, and the other thing,” are coming from a barrier mindset.

They’re not saying, “Okay, we don’t currently have the rights that we want. Let’s figure out how to go out there and earn that respect and earn those rights.” So I say this not to put anyone in a place they don’t want to be put, but just to say, just to encourage that mindset that we’ve been talking about of not being afraid to change things and find the people around you that allow you to make those changes and find opportunities that you never knew existed.

Soraya: I agree. I don’t know that I would have come as far as I have or that I would be doing the things that I’m doing today, or even having this conversation with you, if I had not been instilled with a certain set of values through my family, my parents. My father was my greatest mentor. And of course my mother, who is still alive today.

But they instilled in me that spirit of, “Go out there and get what you want. Go out there and do the right thing. You work hard and you focus, and if that’s not working, if that opportunity doesn’t work, go look for the next one. But don’t just rest on your laurels and wait for somebody to hand it to you.” And in my entire life, I’ve never waited for anyone to hand anything to me. I’ve gone out and pursued.

In fact, when people talk to me about my career, I navigated my career not knowing that it was going to work out. But I moved around and I changed jobs because I saw opportunities. I saw challenges that I wanted to conquer. I saw places that needed me and needed my style, my thinking, or that I needed them. I needed that opportunity to try something new. And I’ve built my career on lifelong learning, working with others, helping others, a life of service.

I really believe in service. And I believed in government service, and it’s probably what brought me here to NIB, the opportunity to continue to serve.

Hoby: Interesting. Interesting. And you said something earlier, which is that barriers are taught. I also think the abundance mindset that you have, and that I strive to have as well, is taught by our parents and by the people who we respect, also by our mentors. That it’s out there, just go get it. Go try things.

Waiting around for things to change is not an easy thing to do. It tests our patience, and we’re not driving the bus. I personally am a very bad person at waiting around. So I’ve never wanted to do that. It just hasn’t interested me, and it’s allowed me to drive the bus of my career, which sounds like you are doing that and have done that for your whole life.

Soraya: Exactly. Exactly. First of all, why would I want to wait around for somebody to decide what’s right for me? And that’s something that, you know, I mentor quite a few folks, and especially leaders or people who want to be leaders. And it’s one of the things that I say all the time, don’t wait around for someone to give you something. If you want something, go out and try it.

Hoby: Go get it.

Soraya: Now, I also tell them, be prepared. Every day that you walk into your office or you go into your job, whatever your job may be, you are already being interviewed for your next job. Think about that. People are always observing you and they will remember you, especially if you stand out. If you are that person with that right attitude, that right spirit, passion, commitment, as well as skill and capability, somebody’s watching you and they’re probably going to call you and offer you a job.

Hoby: And dare I say the converse is also true. If there’s something particularly not right, that’s going to be remembered as well.

Soraya: Exactly. Exactly. I always tell people, every day you’re being interviewed for your next job. You are being observed.

Hoby: Couldn’t be more true. Could not be more true.

Soraya: And it’s interesting, sometimes the person you least expect is the one that’s observing you.

Hoby: And making notes and making mental notes and remembering things. And in terms of our audience of blind listeners as well, I’m a stickler for making sure that I dress right. Making sure that shirts don’t have stains, that things are pressed well because whether we like it or not, the way that we look, that’s the easiest sense to use, which is our eyesight. And the way that we look leaves a lasting impression.

Soraya: It certainly does. I’m glad to hear you say that because as I mentor folks, I talk about that. I talk about your appearance. You don’t have to wear a coat and tie, but you certainly want to look professional, well put together. How you conduct yourself, how you speak to people, the tone of voice that you use and the attitude that you bring. I always go back to attitude, because I think when you’re a positive person, that doesn’t mean that you always think the glass is half full, that means that you try to find the right side of the equation. You try to find what is positive about what we’re trying to do.

I’ll tell you a little secret about me. I always try to inject humor in the tensest of situations. Because if we can’t laugh, if we can’t smile, we’re going to have a bad day. And I don’t want anybody walking out of my office having a bad day.

Hoby: I just might take that advice to heart and use it. That’s a great one. And what I always say about blindness, people say, “Oh, what are the hardest things? It must be a real detriment.” And I say, “No. Blindness is not a detriment. It’s just a nuisance. But if you want to know the two most annoying things about being blind, one is not having the freedom to drive, which is changing. And the other is not being able to see spots on clothes.”

Soraya: That’s right.

Hoby: I am just fastidiously nerdy about always wanting to make sure that I present well, visually. And I am very, dare I say, very opinionated in this community that we all need to, and it’s harder. When you can’t see, it is definitely harder. Harder to do a lot of things in a sighted world. But one that we need to focus on more than we know is, A, the attitude. Portraying an attitude that fits in, that is an attitude that people not only want to work with, but totally – And I’m sorry, I know this is your interview, but I just want to share this.

For me, the way that I got through school and my academic career and the way that I navigate business is always, and I think this was instilled in me from my parents as well, is this attitude of we’re not adversaries, we’re collaborators. So if I sit down in your chemistry class, your advanced organic chemistry class and you’re the professor thinking, “Oh my God, I’ve got this blind student,” we always have a conversation. I’m here to teach you how to work with a blind student, and you’re here to teach me chemistry.

And it’s not demanding all these things that we know they can’t provide and litigating when things don’t work. It really is as simple as putting the attitude on your shoulders that makes people drawn to you and want to work with you and want to help. That, to me, is such a recipe for success.

Soraya: I agree with you. And I’m going to share something with you that I think is an advantage, this is going to sound awkward, but an advantage that you have by not being sighted is you listen. You really do. You listen more.

Hoby: You have to.

Soraya: Those of us with sight sometimes aren’t listening. And I tell people that all the time. I go, you’re not listening. And I actually say this, close your eyes and listen, because you hear a lot better when you close your eyes. I’m not making that up.

Hoby: And it’s because you’re not distracted by visual imagery.

Soraya: Exactly.

Hoby: So I designed an experience in the wine industry that’s gone on to many other industries and markets as well called tasting in the dark. And it’s not like dining in the dark, it really is simply using a sleep shade or blindfold to allow folks to pay more attention to a product and to what’s being said. That is it. And it’s proven to work as a marketing tool, because when we don’t make it a game, and I’ve done this as a mediator and facilitator for large corporations as well, where we’re not tasting anything, we’re just talking to each other. And we’re not distracted by the visuals, by the facial expression someone is making, by the way that they think and the way that we think they’re reacting. We get so much more done.

Soraya: Yes you do. And one of the reasons I think it’s important., that listening skill, because you can hear in the tone, in the way people talk, you can hear how they feel, how comfortable they are. You can actually hear a smile. I hate to say that, but it’s true.

Hoby: I agree.

Soraya: You can hear a smile.

Hoby: I agree. And you can hear a frown.

Soraya: Yes, you can.

Hoby: Sorry, you’ve been bringing all the positive things up and I’ve been bringing up all the negative conversations. I’m not usually a negative person.

Soraya: No, no, no, not at all. You bring up great positive things as well.

Hoby: So I want to circle back to your work at the Department of Homeland Security. Something you said that you have been there since its inception. Do you think that being able to grow a program from the bottom up, from the very beginnings to where it is today, is that something that was exciting for you? I mean, what have you learned from building that program from the bottom?

Soraya: So, as you know, the Department of Homeland Security was stood up after the events of 9/11. And it was about bringing together disparate agencies to form a unit that basically protects the homeland. Sharing information, sharing resources, et cetera. And I will tell you a couple of things that I loved. First of all, it was exciting to do this. It was exciting because it was an opportunity to create something new and to be at the ground level of starting a federal organization and maybe applying concepts and principles that are difficult to apply to existing agencies because you have to break the bureaucracy, if you know what I mean.

And I think DHS came together well. As much as many people wanted to criticize it, I will tell you, I think it came together well. Based on what I know about industry and how large corporations, you know, when they buy companies, how they merge them in, DHS did a pretty good job. And you have to consider that DHS basically goes through a change of administration roughly every four years, right? Because you get an election and you get new administrators, et cetera, et cetera.

But it was a fairly flat organization that we created. And I think we put together the teams very well. What I found most interesting about working at DHS was how we came together. How several of us became SESs in DHS, but –

Hoby: Sorry, what is an SES?

Soraya: SES, Senior Executive Service. I’m sorry. That’s the highest echelon of career civilians.

Hoby: No, no, that’s good.

Soraya: We came together and I used to joke around, I used to say this to people who applied for SES positions at DHS, “Be ready. Here we roll up our sleeves. We’re executives, but we roll up our sleeves and do the work.” Because that was a reality of who we were and who we are at DHS. The executives are in. They’re all in. They’re not sitting in an ivory tower thinking lofty goals. They’re really folks who roll up their sleeves and get the job done.

And I think that’s probably what made me most proud about being a part of that team, that I saw us come together and say, “We got to build a strong agency. We got to work together. We got to find ways to solve problems together.” And I will tell you, I learned so much being there. I learned how to be a better person and how to be a better manager and leader. And I learned that from the people that I observed that were really, really good, and a few people out there that weren’t so good, if you know what I mean.

Hoby: Right, you learn from the good and the bad.

Soraya: You learn from the good and the bad is right. But I will say that at DHS, they did put a premium on leaders really understanding what it takes to be a leader and providing the right level of leadership. That doesn’t mean everyone was perfect, but it does mean that there was a focus and an attention on the role of leadership and how we worked with the people that provide the day-to-day operations.

Hoby: Incredible. Incredible to have something like that, that you can build and learn so much from. Yep. And again, so much of that learning is done through watching people and attitudes. That’s part of the formula.

Soraya: And talking to people and getting feedback. One of the things that I talk about when I’m mentoring folks, or even when I’m being mentored, but especially when I’m mentoring folks, talk about the importance of getting feedback, of asking, “What did I do well? What didn’t I do well?” And self-assessing yourself.

When you’ve had an experience, I was talking to somebody the other day and I said, “When I used to commute back and forth from DC, I used to drive myself, which in this town it’s a nightmare. I’m in DC, right?”

Hoby: That’s a lot of traffic, yeah.

Soraya: And traffic is always a nightmare. Well, my mornings, I used that commute to think about the day ahead. What was I going to do? Kind of organize my thinking. But in the evening coming home, I did two things during my commute. One, I reflected on the day. I thought about those conversations I had or the meetings I was in. What went well, what didn’t, what could I have done differently to change the outcomes if I didn’t like the outcomes? The second thing I did was let go of the day, so that by the time I walked in my door at home, I wasn’t thinking about work. I was thinking about what I was going to do at home with my family. That’s important.

Hoby: And taking those, oftentimes when we’re blind, we have long commutes. We ride Paratransit, we ride the bus. Take advantage of those blocks of time to self-assess, and I love what you said about letting go. And I’m 36 years old, so I’m part of the millennial generation. And one gripe I have is that I truly feel like always having a smartphone, and I feel like I really do let my phone go because I’ve learned from the older generation. But I feel like a lot of my peers and colleagues never truly let it go.

Soraya: That is true.

Hoby: And they’re always stuck in this mind of, “Oh, what’s my phone saying?” You know, they get an adrenaline rush when they feel it buzz. And sometimes you have to just take a deep breath, go outside and smell the air. That’s what I always encourage people to do in my work as a sensory and food scientist when I’m presenting, is smell the air outside because it will ground you. It will bring you back and make it different than other experiences.

Soraya: So I will tell you something, an interesting little tidbit that I think folks are starting to notice about me. And that is, and I am tethered. I have a phone and I carry it with me wherever I go. But when I’m in a meeting and I’m talking to somebody, I’m looking at that person, I am not looking at that phone. Unless I have an emergency, like I’m waiting for a phone call. And then I tell you, “I’m waiting for a phone call, so I may have to look at my phone.” But I never look at my phone in a meeting. I try to avoid that as much as possible.

Hoby: And right along those lines, we might not have our cameras on, but I feel so looked at in this conversation. I feel focused on and I hope you feel the same way.

Soraya: Yes, I do. I do.

Hoby: And so often sighted people that I interact with think that it doesn’t matter if they’re looking at me or not, because I won’t notice. Boy.

Soraya: Oh, I’ll tell you a funny story. So I’m a people person, by the way. If you haven’t noticed, I’m an extrovert, right?

Hoby: Yeah.

Soraya: So you can imagine being locked down, what that was like for me. But anyway I knew it had to be done and I had to do it. I turned on my camera every single day and I asked my leadership team to do the same thing when we were meeting. I didn’t ask the staff to do that, but I did require my leadership to do that. And the one thing that everybody commented on was how I was always focused and looking at them on screen. That I wasn’t looking at emails, because that’s what a lot of people do these days, teams, right?

Hoby: It is.

Soraya: Not me. I turn on my camera and I’m looking at you when you’re talking to me. Even if your camera’s off, I’m looking at your secret square and that’s because you deserve that attention. You deserve that respect. When I sit in a meeting with people, whether they’re sighted or not, when they speak, I’m looking at them, always. That’s a sign of respect. That’s what I was taught.

Hoby: And people feel respected. They might not know what it is that they’re feeling, but that is part of the attitude which got you where you are. I’ll tell you.

Soraya: Exactly. Yeah, I agree.

Hoby: I love it. I so appreciate you chatting about it and giving us so many life lessons here. One of the things that I really want to talk about is NIB and what you see happening at NIB over the next months and years to come.

What I love about where you are with NIB right now, is you’re essentially on the other side of the table. And the side that you know very well, which is the side that does the selling to the procurement officers, and using that knowledge I think you can shape the way that things are presented, the way that the products that we offer are presented and the services that we offer are presented in a way that will be super attractive to procurement officers.

Soraya: So I agree. But the first order of business is bringing NIB together as a team with the NPAs to make sure we really understand our business. That we understand what our challenges are and what our opportunities are. And that’s not to say that we don’t, but to make sure that we’re organized around that, that we’re speaking in a common language about our challenges and our opportunities.

The second thing is to make sure that we are communicating effectively with the Commission, the AbilityOne Commission®, with our other affiliated associations, you know, the other organizations out there that are supporting those that are blind and visually impaired. That we are talking in the same language, if you will, if we’re communicating effectively with our counterpart centralized nonprofit agency, Source America and their associated agencies, because we are a community.

We are a community under this AbilityOne® Program. And we need to be a little bit more effective about how we communicate with one another as we go out and communicate with those customers that we seek. Be they the federal government or those that serve the federal government, because there’s great opportunity with a lot of the contractors who serve the federal government. They have contracts, and that means that they have subcontracting opportunities that we might be able to take advantage of.

So my goal is to make sure that we build our strategic plan, that we build a good communications and marketing strategy, and that we have a strong business development team that knows how to go out, pursue the customer, understand the mission of that customer, and understand how we can best serve that customer through our network of the various nonprofit organizations.

Hoby: It’s all about customer service and figuring out what someone needs and providing it in the absolute best way.

Soraya: And helping them understand, I say this all the time and I mean it, my employees are my customers. My peers are my customers. And my stakeholders are my customers. They’re all customers.

Hoby: I couldn’t agree more.

Soraya: And we provide a service, right?

Hoby: I couldn’t agree more. And it’s my job, it’s our job to make them feel appreciated.

Soraya: Exactly. And treating them as customers doesn’t mean they’re always going to get what they want, but it does mean that they are going to get your very best, and they’re going to get your honest, best effort to get them what they want or what they need. And to help them understand when they can’t get what they want, what they need.

As a chief procurement officer at DHS, I sometimes had to have conversations with some of the program officials that we were working with to say, “Can’t do it that way. Here’s your options, but I can’t do it the way you’re trying to do it.” It’s okay.

Hoby: It’s okay to have to do it a different way, but you’re always finding, this is the thing, you always find a way to do it.

Soraya: Find a way to do it and help them understand why it can’t be done the way they want it, because that’s an important piece of it. That’s about your integrity.

Hoby: It is about integrity. Oh my gosh. It is absolutely integrity. And integrity is so important. And frankly, along those lines, legacy is so important. What people say about you when you’re not there at a cocktail table in a happy hour, that’s important.

So what I hear you saying as well is that it is now our time to shine and understand what people want and deliver what they want in the best possible way that makes it as easy as possible for those who we serve to get done what they need to get done.

Soraya: Exactly. Look, the community we serve, the blind and visually impaired, creating these employment opportunities is job one. That’s the most important thing we do. And every job is important. Every job is a good job. And every place of employment should be open for any individual that wants to go work. And what we have to do is make sure that we are effective in communicating what we do, how we do it, why we do it, and why it matters.

And we can’t lean in on, you know, regulations. Yeah, they’re there. That’s how we get the job done, right? That’s how we make it easy for somebody to enter a contract with us. But the value that we bring, why what we do matters and why we do it so well, and what an important community that we have that comes to work every day with a passion and a dedication and a commitment to do the job that they’ve been given to do, whatever that job is.

Hoby: It harkens back to what we talked about a few minutes ago in terms of making people want to work with you. We need to not tell people that they need to buy from us, but make them want to use our products and services to bring themselves to the next level and to make their job and their people’s jobs easier.

Soraya: Exactly, and to see the value of having our folks, individuals who are blind or visually impaired, working with them, for them, providing them that service. Because I got to tell you, you know, what I tell folks when folks ask me, “Why, Soraya? You had a great career and you could be an independent consultant.” And by the way, I had a really great job when my phone rang and the recruiter said, “Hey!” Headhunter said, “Hey, there’s this position over at NIB, thought you might want to talk to us about it.”

I had a great job. I didn’t need to change jobs, but just the thought of working with this community and creating opportunities was exciting to me. And now as I go out and I visit the NPAs and I’m meeting people and I’m watching people work, oh my God, if just, it fills my heart, right? I can’t think of a better place to be right now. And I want to stand on the rooftops and shout it out to people, “Look at what we do! And look at how well we do it, and look at how much better we can be.”

Hoby: Right. One of the things that I love about something that you just embody in your style is that it’s not because these people are blind that it’s so amazing that they can do this stuff. These are people who are honestly, probably in many cases, better than their sighted counterparts at getting the work done. And you love seeing excellence.

Soraya: Exactly. And I want every – Look, every person matters. Every member of the team is important. And I want every member of the team to be successful. And I want to bring new members into the team. And I want to bring those members from all walks of life. That was something I was fanatical about at the department. We had an intern program and I very intentionally created offshoots of that intern program. One, to bring in senior students from college during their summer break to come and learn about procurement, to try to entice them to come into our profession.

I also went over to VA. Well, I didn’t, but my staff and I, we went over to VA and we created a program called Warriors to DHS because we wanted to bring deployed veterans who are coming home, who are now looking for career opportunities, why not come into our profession? The contracting profession. And then our department, the department of Homeland Security. We created these programs. We created these opportunities because it’s an opportunity to bring people who might not otherwise get opportunities.

Spouses of veterans. I was big on hiring spouses of veterans because I used to go, those people have probably some of the best experiences, they’ve been traveling all around the world. And I love seeing people succeed and I want to see people come in from different, a variety of backgrounds and learn. And I want to bring people into our professions, right?

When I was in contracting, I’m going to tell you, I could sell that job. I could sell that job and it wasn’t because I told people you’re writing contracts, okay? But I could sell that job, just like I could sell the government. You know how people go, “Oh, I don’t want to work for the government.” Oh no, talk to me for an hour. In fact, I had a deputy one time that used to call me the closer. He used to say, “You know, when you try to convince somebody to come to work, go send them to Soraya, she’s the closer.”

Hoby: That’s a great analogy. I love it. And it makes perfect sense. And it’s an honor to be considered the closer.

Soraya: Exactly.

Hoby: But that’s what we do. That’s the whole point, just to bring this back to NIB, that’s the whole point is to make it exciting and give people the desire and the motivation to jump in with both feet and succeed.

Soraya: And the opportunity, to find them the opportunities, right? So that they can come into the work environment and feel welcome and appreciated and given the opportunity to excel, you know, to grow and develop and choose a career path. Every job is open to anyone who wants it. That’s the view that I take. There are no limits.

Hoby: That’s so true. Let’s live in a world without limits and just let our brains decide what we want to do, and then run with it.

Soraya: Right. But we have to earn that ability. Nobody’s going to give it to us. I promise you, people can talk about trying to give it to you. You know, you hear some folks go, “We’ll give you this, we’re going to give you that.” No, nobody gave me anything. I worked really hard for what I have.

Hoby: And you know what? How much – Let’s just talk about this for a second. When you go on a much deserved vacation and you spend your own money to enjoy yourself, how much sweeter does that feel than if someone were to hand you the vacation money that you just go out and spend? That’s just not fun.

Soraya: Exactly. Or my home. How much more do I love my home because I bought that home, because I decorated it, because I have it. Everything is of value to me because I got it. Because I did it. My husband and I working together, we built it, right? Everyone should have that experience. And I think that when we don’t allow people to have that experience, that experience of having a great job and achieving that economic independence, when we don’t give people that, when we try to carry them through, we hurt them. Because that is the greatest feeling in the world. I got this. I did this.

When I think back and when people talk to me and talk about what I’ve done and when I hear folks, you know, I’ve had people send me notes and thank me because I influenced their career. That’s what I feel. That’s what I love. That’s why I did it, right? Because it makes me feel good to know that I helped someone else and I made someone’s life a little bit better, that I taught them something or a new way of doing things.

Hoby: And you earned that note. You earned that thank you. That’s what it’s all about.

I tell you, the number of folks I’ve talked to who work so hard with our nonprofit agencies who say, “Yeah, I was just able to buy my first house because of this program. I’m saving money for my kid’s college.” That’s what makes you feel good.

Soraya: That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. When I meet people who say, “I started in this organization and I started out in this junior level job and now look at me, I’m running the HR department or I’m their lead, I’m the CEO of a nonprofit agency.” Wow! What a powerful story.

Hoby: That’s it.

Soraya: What a powerful story because I go back and think about the fact that I started out as a contract specialist. I started out without a degree. I took a job and then I turned it into a career and I went back to school and I got my degree very late in life. I got my degree in 2002. I was already like a GS15. If you know anything about GS levels, I was fairly high level before entering senior executive service.

But I think about that and I think about that pride that you feel when you start from the bottom and you work your way up and you end up in a great career. And that’s what I want to see people achieve. And that career should be in whatever you want.

Hoby: And you don’t have to go to college to earn great success. It’s all about the mindset that you have. And let me ask you a question just as we sort of wrap up here, but I’ve got a couple of open-ended questions for you.

One is how can folks who maybe are feeling scared about coming out, stepping out and going to work, what should they do? What should their first step be to come out and join the workforce in whatever way they can?

Soraya: So what I always say is try to find yourself a network of people, or at least one or two people that you trust that can mentor you through because it can be scary. And so sometimes you need someone to introduce you to somebody or to tell you, “Here are good places to go.” Or to accompany you and say, “Let me take you over here and show you the art of the possible”, right?

So I always say, don’t be afraid to reach out to other people. Don’t be so proud that you are afraid to have that conversation. The amazing part is there are so many people that are willing to help. That’s what you’re going to find amazing when you raise your hand and say, “I need a little bit of help.” You’d be surprised how many people really want to help.

And then there are networks, there are organizations, you know, today it’s a lot easier than it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. And it’s probably going to be a lot easier in another 10 years because there are a lot of organizations, and what the internet has given us is the ability to go find these organizations. To go find people. You can go find mentors on the internet. Anybody who’s listening to this call can log on to LinkedIn and not only find me, but they will find the people that are following me who can be mentors or part of their network. It’s not that hard.

And you know what it takes to get a mentor? It takes a nice email or a nice note that says, “Hi, I read your profile and you’re in a career field that I’m extremely interested in. I was wondering if you might have a few minutes to chat with me.” That’s all it takes.

Hoby: That’s it.

Soraya: And the great people, the really good people, the people that are really caring are going to respond right away and say, “Certainly. When would you like to chat?” And those that maybe are a little bit busy might say, “I’m a little bit busy, but have you talked to blah, blah, blah.” That’s literally what happens. People really want to help each other out, but that’s all.

Hoby: And then to the person who’s seeking the mentor, got to remember to stay positive and make it fun for the mentor.

Soraya: Rejection is a part of life. So if somebody rejects you, you know what you do? You dust yourself off and you move on to the next one. But you don’t give up. You keep trying. But that nice little note, I promise you, if you send it to 10 people, I’m going to guess that at least four are going to answer positively.

Hoby: I agree with you. Step out there, get those people that you know are in the field that you want to study and you want to be a part of and learn from them.

Soraya: There are a lot of things that we don’t like to do in life, don’t want to do in life. I didn’t want to be a clerk typist. In fact, I remember when my father told me to take the typing class, I was like, I’m never going to do that. Well, guess what my first job was. I was a clerk typist. Thank God I took that typing class.

But my point is sometimes you take that first job that maybe isn’t the perfect thing that you want, but it gets you in the door and then you can expand from there. And so sometimes we get our hands dirty and we do things maybe that weren’t ideal, right? It got me started. I met people and I got into that environment that now opens the door for me even further.

Hoby: And let’s say someone is really nervous about going out and getting work with one of our agencies. If it makes you feel better and more comfortable, start volunteering and then earn the respect and move up to employment.

Soraya: Exactly. Exactly, but just try.

Hoby: Yeah, so many ways to do anything.

Soraya: Exactly.

Hoby: Yeah. One question for you and then I want to ask how folks can get ahold of you. But the last question that I just, I think is a fun one, particularly coming from your position. What are you most excited about in the next six months?

Soraya: What excites me the most is the opportunity to pull our team together. And when I say “Our team”, I’m talking about not just NIB, but our affiliated agencies as well as the other organizations, and really come together and figure out how we get this right. That’s what I care about. I care about creating relationships and collaborations so that we can move the needle forward.

Our ultimate goal, whether you’re NIB or Source America, you’re, I don’t know, pick your organization. I call it the alphabet suit of acronyms out there. Whatever association.

Hoby: Right, it is.

Soraya: Our ultimate goal is to make sure that we create opportunities for economic independence for people who are blind or visually impaired or have other severe disabilities. That’s what we’re all here for, so let’s focus on that. So what I’m excited about is building those collaborations, those relationships, getting to know our network, and then having the opportunity to work with them.

And that doesn’t mean that everybody’s going to like me or want to work with me, but that’s okay. We’ll work on that.

Hoby: Your energy and your leadership are infectious and you’ve got a partner in crime right here. I’m ready to help.

Soraya: Thank you, Hoby, I appreciate it so much.

Hoby: And on that note, what is a good way for folks to reach you? Because I know a lot of people are going to be inspired, just the way I was. You mentioned one already, LinkedIn.

Soraya: Yeah, LinkedIn. I’m available on LinkedIn. I’m not on it all the time. I’ve got to get better at it. I’m a little, I’m a little slow but that’s because I’m busy working. But I’m available at scorrea@nib.org. That’s S-C-O-R-R-E-A @nib.org.

Hoby: Marvelous, Soraya. Thank you so much for your time. I’m so excited about your journey with NIB and being a part of it myself. This is going to be fun.

Soraya: Thank you so much. And I appreciate your time, Hoby. And I appreciate all that you do in this wonderful podcast that you put out there for folks. Thank you.

Hoby: Have a good one, Soraya. Thank you so much.

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