Chris: Find your local non-profit agency that provides services for the blind and just reach out to somebody. Anybody can refer anybody for services. But even if you just want to find out a little bit more about what our agencies do, what these programs are about, what it really means to have full-time employment, reach out, find out who they are. You don’t know how much is out there, how much are at these individual agencies necessarily unless you reach out and try and find out more.

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: Well, happy Wednesday, everyone, and welcome back to the Heard and Empowered podcast. I am so excited to introduce today’s guest to you. But before I do, I just want to thank you for spreading the love, for telling your friends about the show, for liking it on all of our social media channels, on Facebook, on Instagram, on LinkedIn.

And the other thing that you can do for us, if you like what you hear today and you like the previous episodes that you’ve heard, please give us a review. Those reviews, five stars, if you think we deserve it, help us elevate the podcast and move us to new levels and provide all the amazing resources that we talk about here to even more people.

So today I am absolutely honored to welcome our guest, Chris Burke, who is the Executive Director of the New York State Preferred Source Program for New Yorkers who are Blind. We’re going to talk all about job opportunities, all the amazing work that’s happening up in New York State, and just everything that you want to know about an amazing state-run program. Chris, welcome to the podcast.

Chris: Hoby, thank you. It’s a pleasure to be on.

Hoby: My honor to have you on here, and I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me to think about the work, the amazing work that you all do. Let’s start out before you came into the world of blindness. Can I hear just a little bit about your background, sort of what interested you in college and how you ended up, and take as long as you want to tell me this, how you ended up where you are with the Preferred Services Program?

Chris: Sure, I’d be happy to. So I finished school, I have a master’s in public administration. And I immediately went into working in the federal government and left and moved to New York State and worked in the state legislature, and worked for a former governor. After a tough election, I moved out of government and moved into the nonprofit sector.

And I actually worked for the American Red Cross of Greater New York for four years, where our job, my job, was to use that most recognizable symbol in the world and create business opportunities for chapters across New York State so they can become more self-sustaining and provide more services in the community.

Hoby: More chapters of the Red Cross.

Chris: More chapters of the Red Cross, yep.

Hoby: Yeah, that’s amazing.

Chris: It’s a wonderful organization. And we were doing very well, and September 11th came along and kind of changed that organization. And I left and moved to the Northeastern Association of the Blind at Albany, where I was the chief operating officer. So that was my first introduction to the blindness community and to one of our agencies.

When I was at the Red Cross, I got a second master’s degree, a degree in business. I thought that might be a good complement to what I was doing in the public sector, and I focused on social entrepreneurialism. So non-profit organizations taking a business approach to be self-sustaining, because that’s the work I was doing in the Red Cross.

So I brought the experience and that little bit of education to the Northeastern Association of the Blind and the Preferred Source Program.

Hoby: Well, Chris, thank you for explaining your background. And what was it particularly about the blindness community that pulled you in? And that was over 20 years ago when you started with the Northeastern Association of the Blind. What do you love about this community?

Chris: Well, what really drew me in at the time was it was a start-to-stop operation. Everything that anybody needed who was blind or visually impaired, these little nonprofit agencies, I shouldn’t say little, some are quite large, are there to provide it. And so they developed this community. So when you took a job or entered in, you immediately entered into this community, and a community that I had no exposure to prior to joining the Northeastern Association of the Blind.

So I learned right away what the community was like, what people are capable of, how everybody is the same, trying to get the same opportunities as everybody else. And this whole idea of self-sustaining non-profit organizations that can participate in this business program and be very entrepreneurial was very enlightening to me and very exciting to me because there’s no ceiling to what you can do.

And if we’re successful, all we’re doing is creating jobs for people who are looking for employment and looking to take care of themselves and their families. So it’s a great opportunity. And it was a great 18 years at the Northeastern Association of the Blind.

Hoby: And you know what I love about what you said is we’re just, and I happen to be totally blind myself since birth, and we’re just a community like anyone else trying to earn gainful employment and provide something that’s of true value to the community. And the more people we can employ, the better.

Chris: Absolutely. I absolutely agree with that. And with a population that has a high unemployment rate, when we do create an opportunity and people see what’s possible, you start to create a very strong workforce and a very closely-knit community. And that allows you and allows me in my position as an organization to be able to go out and look for new opportunities because I know I’ve got a solid, ready-to-go workforce across New York state that’ll take on any opportunity that we can find.

And I think that’s kind of unique to our network of agencies. And it speaks volumes to who we are and what we do.

Hoby: I think it is unique to, you know, from a state level, I think you guys are one of the only states, if not the only state, with a full-on system of agencies who support folks who are blind and provide them with gainful employment.

Chris: New York state is the only state with a Preferred Source Program where it’s separate. We have one program that represents individuals who are blind and one program that represents individuals with all other disabilities. In every other state where there’s a program, there’s 20 states with a state use program, they’re combined. And I think it kind of, it gives us an advantage being separate.

Hoby: And the Preferred Source Programs, they’re all called that, the New Yorkers who are blind and the New Yorkers with other disabilities. They’re ultimately kind of the same state program, but offering different services to different groups?

Chris: Yes. Yep. That’s right.

Hoby: Okay. And the division that you run is the Preferred Source Program for New Yorkers who are blind specifically.

Chris: Specifically. And that’s unique to New York, Hoby.

Hoby: I love that.

Chris: Yeah, and it gives us an advantage. And in the New York state program, we have priority in the program over the other entity, the New York State Industries for the Disabled that represents all other disabilities. We have priority, so we get first dibs at any opportunities that come along.

Hoby: And I guess the reason you have priority is because of the high unemployment rate of folks who are blind.

Chris: It’s the high unemployment rate and it’s the age of the program. It was started back in the 30s. So really, it was just a matter of the individuals who are incarcerated have the top priority and then the individuals who are blind and then all the disabilities.

Hoby: This is incredible. I mean, having such a program at the state level means so many more job opportunities for folks who would otherwise be unemployed.

So tell me about the relationship, if you can, if you will, or how I should say, the Preferred Source Program for New Yorkers who are blind works. Who do you represent? How do those agencies themselves operate, et cetera, et cetera?

Chris: So the program really applies to state government, city government, county government, and all local municipalities. So it’s a varied customer base. Everybody from the local town library to the New York City Transit Authority are all subject to the Preferred Source Law. And so that gives us a great opportunity to go out and try and look for opportunities. And because it’s such a varied customer base, we have a sales team that goes out and calls on customers all the time.

Hoby: What is that program that is all subject from very local government to state government? What is the program?

Chris: It is the New York State Preferred Source Law.

Hoby: Okay. Which states that?

Chris: Our governing statute says if anybody at a state agency, a city agency, or any other level of government is going to procure a particular item or a particular service, and one of our agencies are able to provide that product or that service within 15% of the market price for that commodity or service, that entity is supposed to come to us first. And they’re coming to us first before they go to procurement because we’re trying to deal with a high unemployment rate for individuals who are blind.

So trying to get out of that chronically high unemployment, we actually come before regular procurement. So it gives us that opportunity to take a shot at trying to meet the needs of those agencies.

Hoby: And it ties right back into your social entrepreneurship desire and basically providing these very entrepreneurial opportunities for folks who are blind.

Chris: Absolutely. So if there’s a need out there, anything that a public sector entity is going to try to purchase, and we can do it, there’s no limits. We can go ahead and try.

One thing we’re doing right now, Hoby, everybody is aware of the situation that New York City is having with migrants. We have a large influx of individuals coming in. So they need supplies. They need particular things. So our agencies here are providing a lot of blankets and hygiene kits, emergency response kits, and a variety of things to agencies in New York City to respond to the migrant influx, the situation going on there. And we’re allowed to do that because, again, there’s no parameters. And we can step in and say, how can we help you? What do you need? And at the same time, we’re putting people to work.

Hoby: How cool is that? And also helping a population of migrants who need hygiene kits and blankets, and they need to stay warm or they need to stay cool. So while we’re employing people, giving them gainful employment, allowing them to buy houses and save money for their families and all this, the people who are employed can rest assured that their work and the time that they’re spending is being put to excellent use.

Chris: Absolutely. Absolutely. We’re very proud of the work that we do to support agencies, whether it’s law enforcement, emergency response, people in need. Our pitch when we go out and talk about our program and try and get sales, we don’t talk about the law. We don’t talk about Preferred Source. We talk about, what do you need? How can we help you? And while we’re doing that, you’re going to help another population who’s trying to get at a high unemployment level.

So it’s back and forth. And you create these relationships with your customers, and then they want to come back to you. And then you build on that, and you do more and more.

Hoby: It’s offering truly excellent customer service across all sectors.

Chris: It is. And very often we’re in a position, because of existing business, that we have to be able to respond very quickly to a particular need. We mentioned the blankets and the kits and things that the migrant situation required. Well, they needed them right away. Well, because we’re already manufacturing a lot of those commodities, we’re able to shift and quickly respond to their situation where if they had to go out to bid, find a supplier, go through that whole process, it was going to take them a lot longer. They weren’t going to be able to respond as quickly. So we’re able to actually come in and be a resource to help those agencies meet the critical need right away.

Hoby: That is awesome. That is totally awesome. How many agencies does the Preferred Source Program serve?

Chris: Well, we have nine agencies in our system, and our customer base is quite varied. Every agency in New York State is eligible to buy from us, as well as New York City. We do as much work in New York City as we do with the rest of New York State. Everybody knows how large New York City is, a large population center. We work a lot with the railroads, so Long Island Railroad, the Metro North Railroad, the subway system in New York City.

I don’t know how many particular agencies altogether, but it’s everybody from school districts all the way up to mainline state agencies.

Hoby: What I was curious about in asking that question is how many agencies that serve the blind and employ the blind are in your system, and I think you said you’ve got nine of them.

Chris: We have nine of them. We represent all of New York State. We have agencies from Long Island to New York City, Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, and out to Buffalo, and we swing down the southern tier in Elmira and Binghamton. So we really cover all the population centers in New York State.

Hoby: Chris, how many folks who are blind do you guys employ?

Chris: The number changes a little bit, about 500 people in the program. And in New York State, the required ratio of direct blind employment to other employees is 50%. On the federal level it’s 75%, it’s 50% in New York, so that gives us an opportunity to employ a lot of other individuals looking for employment as well.

Hoby: So you’ve got at least 50% of your workforce has to be legally blind?

Chris: That’s right. Correct.

Hoby: That’s incredible. And what are some examples of, I mean we’ve talked about the blankets, we’ve talked about some of the services you might offer, but in general, what is the range, just to give folks an idea of the wide range of products and services that you offer?

Chris: We offer a lot of janitorial supplies, a lot of cleaning supplies. We offer a lot of safety products. Reflective safety vests are a big commodity, as well as safety gear. Gloves, work gloves of every style that you can imagine.

Hoby: Nitrile all the way to leather and rubber gloves and all that?

Chris: All of them. Surgical gloves, the nitrate gloves that individuals wear, all the way up to blankets, it was mentioned before, and sheets and textile-based products. But services as well. We do document imaging and destruction, and we do digital accessibility and web testing services, as well as a variety of call centers.

So we really try to be as broad as we can in our employment opportunities, because people are going to come to us with different skill levels, different interests, different directions they want to go in and we want to make sure that we’re not only being a good supplier or resource for our customers, we’re also creating opportunities that people are looking for.

Hoby: It’s wonderful work. And how does it work if someone wants to come ultimately and earn a position at one of the nine blindness agencies under your program? Is there a connection? I imagine New York has a commission for the blind?

Chris: That’s right.

Hoby: And what is the connection there between the commission for the blind and your nine agencies that provide the products and services?

Chris: So the New York state commission for the blind will contract with these agencies to provide rehabilitation services. And there’s actually 17 agencies in New York state that provide rehabilitation services. Nine of them happen to also have the manufacturing and service component that falls under the Preferred Source Program under my office.

So individuals find out about our program through the Commission For the Blind. If they’re seeking services, they can also find out about these employment opportunities through our program. We are simply contractors to the state and we work through these agencies that are also contractors to the New York State Commission For the Blind. So we’re connected.

Hoby: Totally.

Chris: We like to talk about it as a continuum of services.

Hoby: Well, and what I love is that really the rehab services offered by the agencies are a gateway to employment.

Chris: Absolutely. Absolutely. It’ll be an individual’s first exposure to what’s available, what services are there. They’re successful on the rehab side. Part of that is, let’s see about employment. And in many cases, that’s competitive employment in the community, which is great. And in some cases, it’s come and stay at the agency and work for the Preferred Source Program. And it’s 100% the individual’s choice. But our program is minimum wage or better, full benefits. And again, we do a variety of products and a variety of services.

Hoby: And I imagine, Chris, that you’re able to offset a lot of the cost to the commission of training through the products and services you sell or the agencies themselves sell.

Chris: You know, Hoby, I always talk about it being the best model out there. There’s no limits to what we do as long as our customers are interested in purchasing. If we can sell these commodities and services, the money that we make, the margin that the agencies make, go back into running organizations themselves and subsidizing the services that are provided under the New York State Commission for the Blind contract. So the more we do, the more we can help the blind community in New York. There’s really no barriers to that.

So we try and be as entrepreneurial as we can. We’re always looking for, where is there an opportunity to step in and do more? And let’s create more opportunities for people. And because we are connected, because we support each other, we work together all the time, we can focus on the individual a lot more. What upward mobility opportunities do you need? Do you want to work in manufacturing or a call center for a while and then move on to something outside of one of the agencies?

Because we work so closely together, because we fund the programs, we’re able to do that and provide excellent service for individuals.

Hoby: And you 100% support and encourage that upward mobility where someone might start as a line worker on a manufacturing line and work up to a supervisory role and maybe even beyond the agency.

Chris: Absolutely. Absolutely. Every day. No different than any other career or any other individuals or any other business out there. We want people to come in. We want people to be successful and continue to move on. When people move on and grow in their careers, it only strengthens everything that we do.

Hoby: Such important work.

Chris: It is.

Hoby: Now we talk a lot on this podcast, of course, about programs and services offered by the nonprofit agencies associated with National Industries for the Blind. But what I’m gathering here is that your program is basically a fully packaged mini version of the AbilityOne® Program for New York State.

Chris: It is. It is.

Hoby: That’s so cool.

Chris: We’re actually, if this is the right term, we’re actually a subsidiary of National Industries for the Blind.

Hoby: So you work directly with them?

Chris: Every day. Yes, mm-hmm. We actually would not be able to do what we do here in New York and be as successful as we are, even though we have a very strong program and very strong legislation, we would not be as successful as we are if it wasn’t for the support that we get from National Industries for the Blind.

Hoby: Tell me how National Industries for the Blind supports you.

Chris: All the employees here at the New York State Preferred Source Program are employees of NIB. We actually operate as a subsidiary of NIB. So all of our back office support, if you will, our IT –

Hoby: HR, IT.

Chris: Yeah, exactly, legal. Those supports we get from NIB through a contract. We have a management agreement with National Industries for the Blind to provide those services. And because those services are established and provided and we’re part of a larger network, it allows us to focus on sales and growth of the program. So they really provide tremendous support for our operation.

Hoby: So without having to worry about the administrative side of things, you guys can just work on being entrepreneurial and growing a great program for a great group of people.

Chris: That’s absolutely right, Hoby. It’s really a strong model. It really is.

Hoby: I get it. I love it.

Chris: And credit to National Industries for the Blind for stepping in when there was an interruption in the program 10 years ago and filling that void and saying, we’re here, we’ll work with the designated agency to deliver this program, make sure it’s successful.

Hoby: Kudos to NIB.

Chris: So they get a lot of credit for that.

Hoby: Yeah. No, huge credit because it allowed the program to keep going and did not interrupt employment.

Chris: Exactly. Exactly.

Hoby: What are some examples that you might be able to think of someone who starts out with one of your agencies and then moves even beyond that agency, maybe into corporate America? I’m sure you’re connected pretty deeply with NSITE, one of NIB’s amazing programs to train folks for workforce development.

Chris: Absolutely, we are. It’s an individual choice, right? Everybody comes to us and they’re going to go in different directions. And sometimes I see people come and just spend a little bit of time to get that experience, a job experience, a little bit of training and move on. So when the New York State Commission for the Blind and the private agencies do job placement outside of the agency, what we see very often, Hoby, is an individual will come and they need some employment experience and then they might be a line worker for a while. And then they’ll work with their commission counselor and try and find something outside.

Or they might be going to school or getting some other training, at the same time they have this stability of working at one of our agencies so they can complete their education or outside training to go pursue something that might be different than what we’re doing.

We also have individuals that stay at our agencies and work in our program for their whole career, which is wonderful as well. And we’re very proud of that and very proud to be able to provide continuous steady employment as well. We’ve had individuals in our program start as line workers and go all the way up to running agencies, being CEO of agencies. People have come through our program, worked for a little while, and sometimes they’re trying to get a little stability of their own for themselves and their family, build up a little income and support, and then move on and pursue an education that they might have put off for a while, while they were trying to get other things sorted out.

So we see a little bit of everything. Here in Albany, because it’s the state capital, we do see a lot of people come out of the private agency and then go work for civil service for the state, which creates wonderful employment opportunities for people as well.

Hoby: I think I’d like to give a shout out to one of our former guests, Sharon Giovinazzo, who now is CEO of the Lighthouse for the Blind of San Francisco and started as a line worker at one of your New York agencies.

Chris: That’s correct.

Hoby: There it is.

Chris: And that’s what we love to see. And there’s a true example of what’s possible. And again, back to this whole entrepreneurial slant that we have, if you will, and the fact that we don’t really have any parameters that we have to be careful of when it comes to pursuing opportunities, you can go do this. We can do it as agencies, we can do it as a program, and do it as individuals. There’s really no limits to what we can do.

Hoby: The sky’s the limit, as they say.

Chris: Sky’s the limit.

Hoby: Chris, I have just a couple more questions for you that are a little bit open-ended, and then we’ll go ahead and sign off. But the first question I have for you personally is what do you think inspires you most when you go to work every day running the Preferred Source Program?

Chris: Hoby, I’m inspired by the people that work in the program. I’m inspired by the dedication. I’m inspired by the fact that people come and work as a team. They care just as much about doing a good job because it’s meaningful to the person next to them as it is for themselves.

We have a tremendous workforce, and we create opportunities. People appreciate those opportunities. It’s all they’re looking for, as everybody is. And it brings me into work every single day wanting to do more because I know there’s more people out there who need to join our program. I know there’s more people out there looking for employment and independence. I know we have the right network to do it, we’ve got the right approach, the right model. We just need to do more.

Hoby: And folks, if you’re listening and you’re ready to jump in full force, this is a great program to get involved with. This or any of the NIB non-profit agencies. This is an opportunity to get out there and earn gainful employment. And boy, when we can take that dollar that we made with our own hands, doing the work that we do and go on vacation and spend that money instead of money that we’re given, how much sweeter does that feel? It’s just better.

Chris: It’s so much better. Taking care of yourself and your family.

Hoby: So true.

Chris: We often forget everybody has family. Everybody has somebody that they’re connected to that they need to support or stay connected to or be a part of their lives. And employment goes a long way to getting you the resources to be able to do that.

Hoby: You said it best. You said it best.

Finally, Chris, what would you tell someone who’s listening to this episode or maybe even a family member of someone who’s blind listening to us chat today, and they’re just on the fence about whether they should step out there and stick their neck out and take the first step? What advice would you give them?

Chris: The advice I would give anybody is to find your local non-profit agency that provides services for the blind and just reach out to somebody. Anybody can refer anybody for services. But even if you just want to find out a little bit more about what our agencies do, what these programs are about, what it really means to have full-time employment, reach out, find out who they are. You don’t know how much is out there, how much are at these individual agencies necessarily, unless you reach out and try and find out more.

They’re so busy. They cover so many territories. They’re helping people every single day. Sometimes we just have to reach out and find out a little bit more. It might not be the right thing for somebody, perhaps, but it’s worth finding out about and deciding that for yourself.

Hoby: And don’t be afraid if you need a little bit of extra training in order to step into the job market, because that’s what the commission and these amazing agencies we’ve been talking about provide.

Chris: Absolutely. That’s true. Whatever the individual needs, to your point, Hoby, some people just need a little bit of training. Sometimes people need a little help getting reintroduced to the workforce, potentially. Other people need a lot of training because they’re new to the world of work and developing their skills.

It doesn’t matter where you are. It doesn’t matter what you might need. These agencies for the blind are here to provide those services. New York State Commission for the Blind exists simply to fund services, whatever they might be for individuals in New York State. Happy to do it.

Another wonderful workforce, I talk about the workforce that does manufacturing and services, I have to talk about the workforce at the agencies providing services around these agencies. Super dedicated, very committed individuals who are here to provide a service and do every single day.

Hoby: Chris, you said it best and it has been such an absolute pleasure having you on Heard & Empowered today. I want to ask you, is there anything that’s burning in your mind that you want folks to know about that we didn’t get to talk about yet?

Chris: I want people to know about the connection that we have to the public sector. We kind of take the public sector for granted. We ride the trains, we drive on the roads, whatever it might be. We take it for granted. I want people to understand that the day-to-day operations of the public sector, whether it’s the federal government, state or city government, by their actions of operating and providing the services that they do, they’re creating opportunities for us. It’s a tremendous customer base. People are more than happy to participate in this program. They want to participate in this program.

I just want everybody to know that. We talk a lot about this side and what we’re doing, but people need to also understand that our customers, the public sector out there, are doing great things every day as well.

Hoby: And with this amazing symbiotic relationship, you support them and allow them to do the great work that they do and they support you all, all of us.

Chris: And that’s how it should work.

Hoby: It is how it should work and I wish more systems were like this. What an honor to speak with you and to hear this, Chris. Thank you so much for your time today.

Chris: Hoby, thank you. It was a pleasure.

Hoby: Folks, this has been an awesome conversation with Chris Burke. As I said, please follow us on social media, give us a five-star review. I know Chris deserves a five-star review. Just log on, it won’t take you much time at all and that’ll bring this podcast to even more ears. Thank you all so much.

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