Intro: 00:00

Welcome to the Heard and Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. We’re on a mission to empower people who are blind, low vision, or visually impaired to build fulfilling careers, gain personal independence, and take the next step toward achieving their own American dream. Guests from all walks of life share their journeys and how they overcame challenges they faced along the way. Whatever your interests, experience, talents, or career goals, listen to discover important connections and unlock the resources and inspiration you need to chart a new path. Ready to be heard and empowered?

Soraya Correa: 00:36

Hello and welcome to Mission Driven, a special series of the Heard and Empowered podcast. I’m your host, Soraya Correa, president and CEO of National Industries for the Blind. My guest today is Paul Healy, immediate past chair of the NIB Board of Directors. He first joined the NIB board in 2005, serving until 2010, and then returned to the board in 2017 before stepping down earlier this year. During that time, Paul helmed the committees that hired two NIB presidents, and he helped lead NIB through the Covid pandemic.

His knowledge of finance, auditing, and ethics have benefited NIB and our associated nonprofit agencies. In addition to his work on the NIB board, Paul has also had a day job as a professor at Harvard Business School since 1998. Paul, thank you so much for joining me today.

Paul Healy: 01:28 

You’re welcome. Soraya. I thank you for having me.

Soraya Correa: 01:30

It’s a real pleasure to see you again. And I should mention that, you know, we talk about hiring two NIB presidents. Well, I’m one of those that you hired, so.

Paul Healy: 01:37

That’s right. Yes. It was a big, big win for NIB.

Soraya Correa: 01:41

Oh, a big win for me as well. To join such a fabulous team and to have the opportunity to work with such a great board under your leadership and now Zach’s leadership. So again, thank you so much.

Paul Healy: 01:51 

My pleasure.

Soraya Correa: 01:51

So, to get us started, I thought, you know, we’d open up to talk a little bit about your career path. You know, what brought you from New Zealand to Harvard Business School. And what have been some of the themes that have guided your work in academia?

Paul Healy: 02:06

So, you’re right. I grew up in New Zealand, and I had this aspiration fairly early on after my undergraduate of wanting to be an academic. And so I explored coming to the U.S. because there weren’t very many PhD programs in New Zealand, actually any at the time that I was there. And so I ended up looking at PhD programs, and I came to Rochester in upstate New York and joined the PhD program there. And from there I got a job at MIT and then moved over to Harvard across the river after about 14 years.

So that was sort of the trajectory that my career took. And I started out working more in accounting and then really got interested in, I started teaching a lot on financial analysis, and so I got interested in the role that financial analysts play in more of a governance role, really thinking about the role of governance in companies more generally, particularly around events like Enron and Worldcom and as, as things sort of heated up in that space and people became more interested in that space, that’s something that I got involved with.

Soraya Correa: 03:17

Yeah. The whole concept of governance, ethics, leadership. Right. Exactly. It kind of, it’s interesting to hear you say that, because that’s kind of what drew me and kept me in the in the procurement world, if you will, in the contract management world throughout my government career, because it was about that concept of helping others, but also that ethical leadership, you know, making sure things get done and done right and for the good of the people for something greater than just ourselves.

So that’s fantastic. Thank you for sharing that with us. I was going to make a funny joke that you say Harvard like you’re from Harvard. You know that.

Paul Healy: 03:53

Well, yeah. That’s so, so people when I go back to New Zealand, they tell me that I sound like I have an American accent. And here they tell me that they’re not quite sure where I’m from, actually. But yes.

Soraya Correa: 04:06

So anyway, so what inspired you to get involved with the National Industries for the Blind? I understand a colleague at the Harvard Business School recommended you look into the organization. But tell me a little bit about that and how you came to be involved.

Paul Healy: 04:18

So Jim Gibbons, who was a former president and CEO of NIB, was an HBS alum, and he was visiting. And I ran into him and he and I, and he was interested in looking for some help on the board. And he said, well, why don’t you come to a board meeting and just attend and you can observe what we do. And so I came and enjoyed it. And then a few months later, he called me up and said, how would you like to be on the board?

And I said, well, sure. And I think in particular, for me it was the experience of being on a board initially, but then once I got a deeper understanding of the mission of NIB, what it does, I was hooked and I really, it made me want to contribute to the best of the best that I could through the board.

Soraya Correa: 05:14

Well, thank you so much. I can’t speak highly enough of your leadership and all the kind words that everyone has said about your great leadership and how you dedicated yourself and committed yourself to the board’s work.

How do you think your background in finance, governance, and ethics shaped your perspective as a member and ultimately as a chairperson of the board? If you don’t mind sharing that?

Paul Healy: 05:40 

Sure. Well, I think I initially started out from the finance perspective and I was on the audit committee and chair of the audit committee, and that was a specific role that I engaged with. That was very central to my own background. But then, but then I think that then I started getting more involved in, as you said, there was a CEO search or president CEO search that I got involved with and other committees that I started getting involved with the strategies.

There was a strategy committee at that point, and I and I think that from my perspective, I think it’s always useful to have a financial perspective, even for an organization like NIB, which is mission driven and not financially driven. But, you know, obviously we’ve gone through some challenging times in the world where, especially with Covid, where, you know, to be able to continue with the mission, you also need to keep your eye on the financial situation for the organization to make sure that things are healthy. And so, and so I think that that was a useful perspective to both keep in mind the mission and what NIB is able to do, but also recognize that we need to make sure we stay on top of the financial side of things. And we don’t lose sight of that.

Soraya Correa: 07:06

No, no, I couldn’t agree with you more. In fact, I think that’s one of the key roles of leadership is always understanding the infrastructure, if you will, and the backbone of the organization. And part of that backbone is understanding the financial situation, understanding, you know, what’s a healthy financial situation for your organization? How do we keep track of things and make sure that they keep ourselves out of trouble? So I certainly appreciate the comment about the finances, because that’s an area that I also have a tendency to emphasize, not just in my current role as a CEO, but even as a senior executive in government.

It was like one of the things that I emphasized whatever organization I took leadership of: what’s our budget? What are we spending our money on? How are we spending our money, and are we being efficient and effective in spending that money? Are we using it wisely and doing the right things? So, I certainly agree with that perspective.

So you mentioned Covid and I just said Covid was a very challenging time for all of us, whether it was the nonprofit agencies, government, industry, all of us experienced Covid. And it was very challenging. As you think about Covid and and the situations that we’ve been in, are there other challenges that you’d like to highlight throughout your tenure here with the NIB on the board?

Paul Healy: 08:20 

I think that the biggest challenge that I saw was that we were at a steady state in some sense. We reached the number of people that we’ve been able to reach, though the employment side of the business has been stable or maybe even gone down a little bit. And that’s a challenge, that you want to be able to reach more people. But it’s also, I always felt that we needed a new.approach, a new strategy to be able to think about that as well. And part of it, I think – so there’s two aspects to it that struck me as being both, as being opportunities. One was, you know, people look at NIB and they say, well, it’s employment. It’s an employment place. You know, it focuses on, it focuses on providing employment.

And it is, but it’s also the agencies that work with NIB do a lot more than just employment. And I think that people don’t always appreciate that. And the number of lives that get touched through the agencies and the number of people that are affected through the agencies is many more than we, than just the employment side of things. So that’s one thing that always struck me that we didn’t play up enough, actually. We didn’t communicate to people who cared about the organization: Learn more about what are the overall implications of what NIB is able to accomplish through the employment, but through its collaborations with the agencies.

And then the other piece of that I thought that I, that I was very much a supporter of was the whole NSITE strategy and the idea that that we should, that we can be reaching more people in employment through an organization like NSITE that’s affiliated with NIB and affiliated with our agencies, that is able to train people and prepare them for what they might find, help in the workplace, help companies and organizations be better equipped to be able to manage people who have vision impairment and help place people. So that was, so we don’t have to just provide jobs. We can also, through the agencies, we can help train people from our agencies who are affiliated with our agencies through their other programs that they offer. And we can then help place them in a variety of different positions. So I thought that was a great move on NIB’s part.

I was – and I think as a board member, I was so wholly behind that. I think that it gives NIB a chance to really see growth. And one of the challenges that I sort of felt was because we were, I would say, a little stagnant on the job growth and that there were lots of challenges that we faced just the day-to-day running the business. I always felt that we were sort of struggling to keep our head above water. And it’s always important, I think, in your own organization to have something that you can look to, that people are excited about.

And to me, NSITE is something we can be excited about, and we could then pursue. And it may in fact make the employment side within the agencies more attractive too, because then there are opportunities within the agencies for people who come in to say, oh, I can actually get trained and do something within the agency or beyond the agency. So it sort of gives us a more expansive path for people with vision impairment.

Soraya Correa: 12:23

Yeah, I think NSITE is an exciting program, and I think it’s a very important program, because the way I sum it up is NSITE’s there to guide the employer and the candidate or employee through that employment journey. I think it’s an extremely important program. I think it’s an important program. Any time that we create opportunities for people to see what’s out there, what’s what, what the realm of possibilities are, I think it’s extremely important.

And I think for individuals who are blind, that’s even more important, right? Because sometimes they are not being shown that capability. They’re not being told or given access to all the capabilities that are out there, or all the opportunities that they might be able to pursue. So yeah, thank you for NSITE, because I’m certainly excited about it.

Paul Healy: 13:08 

And I think that, even beyond that, you know, we’ve talked about the fact that, when you look forward, the types of work that agencies do is going to evolve and change. Of course. And, and in fact, we’ve been primarily manufacturing. We’ve focused heavily on manufacturing. And that’s been great. But I don’t know whether that’s going to be where the, the, the action’s going to be in the next five to 10 years, 15 years, which means we’re going to have to be a little bit more nimble.

And that means that we’re probably going to have to train people and retrain people and so NSITE could play a really valuable role in helping facilitate that.

Soraya Correa: 13:53 

Exactly. And working in partnership with the NPAs, because a lot of our nonprofit agencies, the NPAs, have their own training programs, which is great. And it’s that partnering that we can do to make sure that we’re augmenting them or supporting them, or enabling them or helping them evolve their training programs, as well as allowing for them to participate in our training programs. In fact, a couple of exciting things that you might not be aware of is that our job board is now free to our nonprofit agencies. That’s something that I instituted because I felt that, you know, we need to step up the service to the nonprofit agencies.

And then we, of course, reestablished our leadership program. In fact, the first cohort is going through right now. So very excited about the things that NSITE can and will do for NIB. And certainly looking at how NIB continues to provide greater service to our nonprofit agencies and, of course, to the customers that we serve, including the AbilityOne Commission.

So I want to go back to leadership because I’m always fascinated by your background. You’ve written and taught extensively about ethical leadership. In your view, what does ethical leadership look like in a mission-driven organization like NIB?

Paul Healy: 15:05 

So to me, leadership is all about the people that you serve and not about you. I think that, I think we oftentimes think about leadership as about what can I do? And it’s really what can we do and how can I facilitate advancing people and helping people to be their best selves. And to me, that’s what ethical leadership is, that you want people to be able to thrive and to be their best selves and to bring that to the work every day.

And that typically comes from a leader who cares about the people that work there and cares about the customers and not someone who’s focused about their success, but the organization’s success.

Soraya Correa: 15:51 

I would agree with that. I would agree with that wholeheartedly. In fact, when you said that, those are my very words, it’s not about the leader, it’s about the people you lead and it’s about the organization that you lead. So thank you so much for sharing that.

Paul Healy: 16:04

And I think that for me, that’s one of the things that I’ve heard time and again when I was teaching at HBS, we would have people from the military there and the military think about leadership that way very, very powerfully. And I think they feel that they’ve got responsibility for the people that work for them.

Soraya Correa: 16:24  

Exactly.

Paul Healy: 16:25 

And so, and so to me, that was, I found really powerful. And that really helped me to think more clearly about what does leadership mean, not just in a military sense, but also in a business setting.

Soraya Correa: 16:38 

And it’s also about modeling the behaviors of the organization, right? A leader has to model the behaviors that they want to see in their folks and help people succeed, help people see themselves in the future and how they fit into the organization. Their value proposition. I’m always fascinated by all the studies that are done where when they ask people, you know, why they stay in an organization or why they leave, generally it’s because of the organization.

Not the pay, not the rewards, not the incentives. It’s really about I feel valued here. I feel like I’m a part of something, I’m a part of a team, or I love the mission. Those are usually the common responses that you get.

Paul Healy: 17:17

Yeah. And I think in addition to, adding to that, a lot of times people leave organizations because of either the organization, but also because of the person that they’re working for. If the person that they’re working for doesn’t value them and doesn’t give them the chance to thrive and to be their best selves, they get frustrated. And that’s what drives attrition and people end up leaving.

Soraya Correa: 17:44

Exactly, exactly. So NIB and its unique dual mission that is operating as a business while advancing employment opportunities for people who are blind or visually impaired. How do you see that model contributing to the long term, to long-term social and economic impact? How do you see us impacting the world writ large, so to speak?

Paul Healy: 18:08  

Well. I think, I think two ways. One is, one is that when you think about people who have vision impairment, contributing to their lives, making their lives meaningful and their feeling that they can be independent, they can have a job and be successful in their job. That’s really an important contribution I see. And I could well imagine how if people become blind, particularly later in life, it’s easy to feel like you’ve, to lose hope. And so an organization like NIB and the agencies that provide training, that provide work, that help you sort of be able to live your life and get back to treasuring and valuing your life, I think is really an important contribution.

The other thing that I would add, which I’m always amazed when I visit agencies at what people who have vision impairment can actually accomplish. I think that, you know, the average, the layperson, the person who hasn’t had any experience with this would say, well, you know, what can a person who is blind really do in the workplace? But when you visit some of the agencies, as you and I both have, you can see people doing remarkable things and, you know, you wouldn’t believe it until you’d seen it. And it makes you realize that actually, as a society, as a, as a country, you know, we are only successful if we get people to actually contribute. And this is the way for people to contribute meaningfully.

And more so than I think many people realize.

Soraya Correa: 20:09  

I agree with you. I’m always fascinated as I go out and visit the nonprofit agencies, which I try to make it a point to get out there as often as I can to see all the different nonprofit agencies. And I stop and talk to the employees often and ask them to share with me, you know, what are you doing and how are you doing it? And what do you think about your job? And it’s not just what they do, but it’s that enthusiasm, that passion, that commitment for doing it.

For some of these folks, you know, especially some of them who were either born blind or became blind a little bit later in life, they may never have an opportunity to serve in the military, but they’re supporting the warfighter. They’re supporting that first responder. They know what their products are doing, and the services that they provide is to support those individuals. And they’re excited and proud of that mission and that passion, that commitment and that desire to do that just, I find it totally inspiring and motivating.

It makes me want to do more, so to speak.

Paul Healy: 21:06 

Yes. And then you look at the products that they produce and you and you, I’m blown away. I, yeah.

Soraya Correa: 21:12  

The quality, the level. Right? And in fact, I always joke around, you know, I’m seeing them sew uniforms and I can barely needle, you know, thread a needle. So I’m really impressed but I, but I also, you know, I agree with you. It’s about building their economic independence but also giving them the confidence that they may have lost.

Especially, you know, when you become blind later in life. Many people have shared their stories where, you know, they lost their jobs or they left their jobs because they didn’t feel comfortable anymore. And now they come to a place where they can regain that confidence and have an opportunity to perhaps go back into that world. And some actually, you know, leave us and go work. You know, leave our nonprofit agencies and go work elsewhere.

Sometimes they come back because they like that feeling of being in that family where people understand you and where you’re not different. You are the same as everybody else, so to speak. So yeah. So I think it’s just great. You know, I’m always excited about the job.

Paul Healy: 22:09

Yeah. And it’s great to see people who, who are able to progress from starting at a, at a very the ground level, so to speak, and then they’ll, they’ll, they’ll work different jobs within the, in the organization. And then they’ll move up a layer or maybe two layers and then and you’ll, now we’re seeing people who are CEOs of, of agencies who have, have started at the bottom or have come through the programs here that maybe the leadership programs that NIB offers. It’s great to see that progression.

Soraya Correa: 22:41  

Yes it is, and it’s inspiring for those who come and see them and they can see themselves now. They can see that they can aspire to achieve those heights. So I think that’s fantastic.

So in your expertise in corporate governance and financial analysis, what advice would you offer to other nonprofits or social enterprises that are striving to build strong, sustainable organizations? I think we’ve touched on some of this, but I just thought I’d give you a chance to recap it.

Paul Healy: 23:12 

Well, I think fundamentally you need to have a, you know, you can think about nonprofit organizations as having missions, but they also need to have a business model that works, too. I think it’s really important, because obviously you don’t have customers in the way that a for-profit organization does. But you do have stakeholders that rely on you and you need to have some sort of a business model that’s going to work for you and allow you to generate the money, be it through donations, through grants, through whatever other ways that you can.

But you need to be clear about what that funding model is going to be. And so that’s sort of bringing, that comes back to the financial side, that you can’t do the wonderful things that you want to do if you don’t have the resources to do it, and you don’t have sort of a model in mind for how you’re going to get there.

Paul Healy: 24:14

Good point. And then and then I think the other is to continually remind people of what the mission is and why you’re there. I remember when I first started working at Harvard Business School, the dean would, at the time, would start every meeting by reminding us of what the mission of the school was. And I, I didn’t come from that background. And so I was sort of puzzled as to why we were constantly reminded. He was constantly reminding people.

And then I realized that there are a lot of people that come into the organization at different levels and different stages of time, and that they don’t know what that is. And and even if you’ve been there for a while, if no one’s reminding you about why you’re there and why it’s important, it’s so easy to lose sight of that, and you get bogged down on the details of what you’ve got to do that day without sort of being able to elevate and think about, well, this, I’m doing this for a for a bigger reason.

Soraya Correa: 25:18  

That’s a good point. That’s a very good point. I, I agree, I think it is important to emphasize the mission and to continually remind the team why we’re here. Why it matters. Right?

So now, thank you so much for sharing that with us. So, you know, as you think about your time with NIB, serving on the board. What legacy or impact do you hope you’ve helped in contributing to the organization? I know you’ve done a lot with us, but I mean, what’s that one thing that you say, God, if people are going to remember me for something, this is what I want them to remember me for?

Paul Healy: 25:55 

I’m not I’m not sure there’s any one thing that people will remember me for, but I always, I always thought that NIB needed another platform to grow on and, and I didn’t necessarily know what it was, but being able to, and I kept encouraging people to think about what is it, what is another platform? Because the one that we’ve got has kind of reached its peak, as best I could tell. And so how do we extend the model and reach more people? And that, I think that was where NSITE came from, and it was not just me, but others on the board who saw the need for something, something else and a second, a second leg or for NIB to make a difference. And so my hope would be that that prevails and, and is successful, whether it’s, I don’t think it’s my legacy but it’s, but that it’s a legacy that the board and, and the leadership it brings to NIB that will allow it to to move into the next phase of its life and have have even more reach.

Soraya Correa: 27:12

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And I share that optimism with you, that I do think that NSITE takes us to the next level. It makes us think about the next level. And as we as we look at, you know, under a new administration, we’re watching government kind of revamp itself.

You know, I’ve been in the contracting business for quite some time, and we’re impacted by the contracting business because that’s how our nonprofit agencies get their work through the AbilityOne Program. I’m excited by the rewrite of the Federal Acquisition Regulations and the opportunities that it can bring. I spent 40 years working in that system, and I know some of the awkwardness that’s in that system, some of the things that worked and didn’t work. And so I’m very optimistic and excited about what the government’s doing and how we play into that, how we can benefit from that. So, yeah, no, I share your optimism about NSITE, and I think it’s a great opportunity to go beyond where we’ve been, if you will.

That’s the way I like to describe it. Yeah.

Paul Healy: 28:07

And as we talked before, maybe, maybe give us opportunities to think about different markets that we could pursue within the agencies that were maybe services that we haven’t, haven’t been able to to crack before. But we can now train people better and identify opportunities that we hadn’t before and grow our core program. I’m not, I’m certainly not wanting to underestimate the value that the programs we have provide, but it’s like, how do we build something extra on top of that?

Soraya Correa: 28:44 

Great – create, create more opportunity and also make our programs better, make them stronger, more efficient, more effective, and invite more people in to work in our program, because we certainly still, you know, when you look at the map of the United States, we still have a lot of areas that we need to cover. And so how can we continue to expand our capabilities and bring in more people and enable more people to take advantage of the job opportunities that are actually out here and the services that our nonprofit agencies provide?

So this is like, now I’m going to get into the big philosophical questions, you know, kidding. We’re close to wrapping up, but I want to to give you an opportunity to to share with me what gives you the most hope or optimism about the future of organizations like ours and the communities we serve?

Paul Healy: 29:31

So I think it’s the sustained record of excellence that we’ve seen over many, many years that allows people to see what’s possible. And what’s possible for people that you might tend to overlook or underestimate what they can contribute. So I think that to me, the hope for the future arises from our track record in the past of being able to accomplish good things and including,as you pointed out, producing military garments that people need use, including during Covid, the materials that we needed to to run, to protect the country. You know, our agencies played an important role in this. So seeing those sorts of successes and where we’re able to really make a difference, I think is a cause for optimism and a cause for celebration, for what can be and what hopefully will be in the future.

Soraya Correa: 30:51 

I couldn’t agree more. That’s great. That’s very well said. So, you know, you’re an inspiring leader and you’ve done such a wonderful job as not just the chair of our board, as a member of the board, but also on the educational side. What, a question I always like to ask leaders, what’s that one leadership lesson or principle that you’ve carried with you throughout your career that you’d pass on to the next generation of mission-driven leaders?

Paul Healy: 31:17

I think I’m not sure there’s – I would, I guess I try to lead by example. And so we talked before about my vision, which sounds very similar to yours, what our vision of leadership is. And I think that the way you pass it on to people is by demonstrating to them how to lead and how you make things happen. And it’s not about you. It’s about them.

And so to me, I think that’s the one thing that I’ve, I’ve seen is the, the advice that I give or the, the advice I give people is remember, it’s not about you. Remember, it’s about the responsibilities you have. Leadership is about responsibility. And so if they see that and see that you quote unquote walk the talk, then, then they’ll, I think they get it.

Soraya Correa: 32:18

Yeah. No, I think that’s great. That’s a great note to wrap up on unless you want to add anything in your reflections.

Paul Healy: 32:25  

No, I think we’ve covered a lot of ground.

Soraya Correa: 32:28  

Covered a lot of ground. Paul, thank you so much for joining me today. And thank you for the many years you’ve dedicated to our mission to create employment opportunities for people who are blind, low vision, or visually impaired. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to join this wonderful and exciting team.

Paul Healy: 32:43 

Oh, it was a wonderful treat for us to be able to entice you to join it. I’m so delighted and best wishes for you and for the organization in the years to years to come.

Soraya Correa: 32:55  

And same back to you. We wish you all the very best and maybe we’ll lure you in one more time. Thank you again.

Paul Healy: 33:04  

Thanks so much.

Outro: 33:05

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