Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

[04:33] Why making a difference drives Larry Allen’s federal service
[07:07] How GSA is slashing procurement red tape for businesses
[16:14] The real barriers nonprofits face in federal procurement
[20:55] Winning strategies for nonprofits to expand federal business
[23:24] How GSA is reshaping policy to balance efficiency, equity, and access
[27:13] Why GSA leadership is championing smart, informed risk-taking
[31:40] The latest on the revolutionary Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) overhaul and what’s next
[46:23] Larry’s advice for the next generation of government leaders

In this episode…

Transforming federal procurement to be more inclusive, efficient, and mission-driven requires both deep expertise and a clear commitment to public service. In this episode, Larry Allen, Associate Administrator for the Office of Government-wide Policy at the General Services Administration, joins host Soraya Correa to explore how federal acquisition can be a powerful tool for broader access, innovation, and impact.

Larry shares insights from his more than 30 years in federal procurement, including his long-standing connection to the AbilityOne Program and his belief that procurement is not just about buying goods and services, but about enabling mission outcomes and creating meaningful employment opportunities. He discusses ongoing efforts to demystify government acquisition, lower barriers to entry for nonprofits and businesses, and modernize systems through regulatory reform, cultural change, and emerging technologies like AI.

Throughout the conversation, Larry emphasizes the importance of trust, education, and leadership — particularly the need for senior leaders to support acquisition professionals as they take informed risks and embrace new approaches. Together, Larry and Soraya reflect on how thoughtful policy, collaboration with industry, and a focus on service and solutions can reshape federal procurement into a more accessible and impactful system for agencies, nonprofits, and the people they serve.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Quotable Moments:

“What really drew me in was, and this may sound trite, but it’s not for me the ability to make a difference.”
“Government indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contracts offer a faster and easier way for agencies to obtain the solutions they need.”
“I look at it as something where we earn a little bit of trust right now.”
“We can change the rules, but if we don’t try to change the culture, we’re never going to be as successful as we could be.”
“If you want to make sure that you can see the success from your labors, I think there are very few opportunities that provide that to you the way government service does.”

Action Steps:

Demystify the federal acquisition process: Simplifying rules and language lowers barriers to entry and encourages broader participation.
Invest in acquisition workforce training and culture change: Equipping professionals with modern tools and support enables more informed risk-taking and better outcomes.
Build relationships beyond contracting offices: Engaging end users, budget leaders, and program managers increases awareness and mission alignment.
Diversify offerings toward services and solutions: Expanding beyond products helps organizations grow alongside the government’s evolving needs.
Participate in policy feedback opportunities actively: Providing comments on proposed rules ensures reforms reflect real-world impact and stakeholder perspectives.

Sponsor for this episode

This episode is sponsored by National Industries for the Blind (NIB), the nation’s largest employment resource for and employer of people who are blind, low vision, or visually impaired. NIB creates opportunities for people who are blind to become wage earners and taxpayers, reducing their reliance on government support and increasing engagement with their communities. Learn more about their impact at NIB.org.

This episode is also brought to you by NSITE, the premier organization dedicated to connecting professionals who are blind, low-vision, or visually impaired with career opportunities. Whether you’re an employer seeking talented individuals or a job seeker ready to take the next step, NSITE provides the resources and support to help you succeed. Learn more and explore opportunities at NSITE.org.

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About Larry Allen

Larry Allen is the Associate Administrator for the Office of Government-wide Policy at the General Services Administration (GSA), a federal agency that provides centralized procurement, real estate, and technology services and shapes government-wide acquisition policy. In his role at GSA, he leads efforts to strengthen efficiency, transparency, and innovation. With over 30 years of federal procurement experience, Larry led Allen Federal Business Partners and served as President of the Coalition for Government Procurement, helping organizations navigate federal contracting and compliance.

Episode Transcript

Intro: 00:00

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. We’re on a mission to empower people who are blind, low vision, or visually impaired to build fulfilling careers, gain personal independence, and take the next step toward achieving their own American dream. Guests from all walks of life share their journeys and how they overcame challenges they faced along the way. Whatever your interests, experience, talents, or career goals, listen to discover important connections and unlock the resources and inspiration you need to chart a new path. Ready to be heard and empowered?

Soraya Correa: 00:36

Hello and welcome to Mission Driven, a special series of the Heard & Empowered podcast. I’m your host, Soraya Correa, President and CEO of National Industries for the Blind. Today I’m really excited because my guest is Larry Allen, Associate Administrator for the Office of Government-wide Policy at the General Services Administration. Larry is an expert in federal commercial contracting with more than 30 years of specialized experience. His extensive career includes leadership roles at Allen Federal Business Partners and the Coalition for Government Procurement.

I think today they call it the coalition for Common Sense in Government Procurement. There, he guided numerous businesses in navigating federal procurement compliance, enhancing business development, and effectively entering or revitalizing federal markets. Larry is also a recognized author, commentator, and educator, contributing regularly to national platforms focused on government and public sector issues. Before I thank you for joining me, I gotta say this: I always enjoyed listening to you talk about procurement because you know how to break down complex issues into simple, understandable concepts.

So thank you for what you do every single day, and thank you for joining me today.

Larry Allen: 01:47

Soraya. Thank you. It’s great to be here with you. I’ve really been looking forward to this.

Soraya Correa: 01:52

Oh, well. Thank you. So I thought we’d start a little bit, talk a little bit about your career journey, and then learn a little bit more about what you’ve done, and then we’ll get into some of the fun procurement issues that we can geek out on. How’s that?

Larry Allen: 02:03

Sounds good.

Soraya Correa: 02:04

All right. So you’ve been a leader in federal procurement, as I mentioned, for quite some time. And as a keynote speaker at one of our forums back in May, you shared you had been associated with the AbilityOne Program for that entire time. So tell us a little bit about your experience with AbilityOne, and also what inspired you and motivated you to stay in the acquisitions business?

Larry Allen: 02:27

So I think, you know, the AbilityOne Program to me has always been an intriguing part of the government acquisition landscape. First of all, it’s a fabulous program for providing a segment of our workforce that doesn’t have a lot of job opportunities with great job opportunities. I get a chance to see some of that firsthand every day here at GSA.We have people and supplies that support our missions really literally right down the hall from my office. So AbilityOne is an integral part of how the federal government goes about its daily business.

And I’ve always been a keen supporter of the program, I understand its mission, but also the way in which AbilityOne traditionally goes to market. It’s with something that says, look, we’re providing great jobs, yes, but what we’re really providing is quality solutions, whether it’s a quality service or a commercial product, you know, we’re we’re providing this and we’re dedicated to supporting federal agency missions. I think that’s really kind of something that makes AbilityOne unique. And oh, by the way, you know, federal acquisition rules give us a leg up.

But it really is always mentioned, Soraya, just that way: we provide great things. We’re great people. We’re easy to do business with. And oh, by the way, you get to check a box.

Soraya Correa: 03:58

Yeah. Since joining the program, what I, what I always say is: we’re a jobs program. We’re here to create employment opportunities. And we use the federal acquisition process as an opportunity to do that, while simultaneously supporting what’s more important than the federal government, right, supporting that that warfighter, that first responder. So for me, it’s kind of like an add on to my career service.

I have to actually acknowledge that, that to me, being a part of this organization, that’s what makes it incredible, is that we’re supporting our government, but we’re also providing employment opportunities for many Americans who might not otherwise get employment.

Larry Allen: 04:33

Exactly, exactly. And, you know, I’ve been really fortunate to be part of the federal acquisition landscape for a long while now. And when I had the opportunity to come into GSA, this is an agency that I’ve worked closely with since the start of my career in this world. It was a real honor, frankly, to be asked to come in and serve at an agency and on topics that I’ve always had an interest in. And what really drew me in was, and this may sound trite, but it’s not for me: the ability to make a difference.

And, Soraya, over the past ten months that I’ve been here, I’ve really had the opportunity to work with my team so that we are making a difference in streamlining procurement and removing obstacles to people doing business with us to reduce procurement overhead and do a lot of other positive things like implement AI and other technologies into government acquisition and in turn provide those solutions to federal customers.

Soraya Correa: 05:45

You know, I have to tell you sometimes we sound a lot alike because that, to me is the reason for being there. I, you know, I often think about, wow, what exciting times these are right to be there to be a part of the solution. And certainly I’m still involved through through some of the organizations that I’m with. But for me it was always about the mission. And by the way, I don’t know if you knew that I worked for GSA a couple of times.

My first job was in the public building service, my after I left Navy, I joined GSA, what is today Federal Acquisition Service. In fact, I worked for Bill Gormley, a mutual friend.

Larry Allen: 06:19

Yes.

Soraya Correa: 06:21

So but like you, I shared that passion for, you know, federal procurement is such an interesting opportunity to really shape mission, to help support mission, to enable mission. Because at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about. It’s the mission of the federal government and helping support the various areas that the federal government is engaged in. And a lot of people don’t realize that, that we use procurement to really enable mission. That’s the way I always like to describe it.

So I thought I’d ask you a little bit about kind of your experiencing in, your experience, if you will, helping agencies and businesses alike, navigating government buys. I mean, what what do you think most shaped your view of procurement as, as a tool for positive impact?

Larry Allen: 07:07

Well, I think, you know. The acquisition system in government fulfills some very important needs. And you touched on a couple of them, Soraya. You know, it’s not just things that we buy or provide contracts for, for daily government operations, although that’s certainly important. But, you know, sometimes we use the federal acquisition system to support warfighters. Not everybody knows that when we have had pharmaceutical needs, pressing pharmaceutical needs in the past, it’s the federal acquisition system that has gotten key drugs into the hands of state and local government officials much more quickly and with the economic efficiency that would otherwise have been the case.

So there are a lot of things that are really critical about the government acquisition work we do here. One of the things that I’m tasked with doing that I really believe in is trying to demystify the government acquisition process as much as we can. We want to make sure that we make it easier to lower the bar for market entry to smaller and newer companies. But also companies of any size, really. We know from past government studies that there are a lot of companies that just refuse to do business with the government because they think we’re too complicated to be a business partner.

Well, we need to change that perception, whether it’s ensuring competition with technology or getting cutting edge solutions in, we need to make sure that we are taking the very best advantage we can of our robust commercial market. So one of the things my team has done is worked with our colleagues and other agencies over the past year to do things like remove 1,100 “shall’s and must’s” from the government procurement system. We’ve removed dozens, hundreds of pages from the government acquisition rules. We’ve put in over three dozen deviations from the Federal Acquisition Regulation to make it easier to do business with us. We’ve stripped away a lot of non-statutory requirements and taken them out of the rules and put them in a guidebook.

So those are all things that are designed to make life easier. And, you know, from the federal side, from our federal customer side, you know, we have an executive order from our president that says that GSA should be the buyer of common goods and services, and we take that very seriously. We, but we don’t want to just use that as a mandate. We want to earn the trust and earn the business of our business colleagues. We also want to earn the trust and business of our government colleagues, and making sure that, if we’re taking on a procurement action or providing a contract vehicle, we want to make sure we’re doing it in a way that meets that agency need.

And if we can’t do it well, then we’ve got to make sure that we change our systems and brush up our operations so that we do meet those needs and we can do it well. You know, I look at it as something where, you know, we earn a little bit of, of trust right now. If we can do the entry level things well, then we’ve earned the right to pursue extra business and deeper relationships with our customer agencies.

Soraya Correa: 10:42

Now that, that’s fantastic philosophy, and I would agree with that. You know, having spent so many years, not only with GSA, but also as a customer of GSA, because many of the agencies that I worked for, we always used GSA vehicles and sometimes even relied on elements of GSA to help support our missions and our operations. So, so I thank you for that. That’s, that’s fantastic. And I certainly hope you will, you’ll, you’ll be successful in getting it done right because it is challenging.

It’s challenging. People don’t realize the magnitude of what you’re talking about. Right. On paper it sounds small, but this is huge. This is a huge undertaking.

But I have every confidence that under your leadership, GSA will be very successful. So I’m going to get a little bit technical because I told you I wanted to geek out a little bit. Sometimes a lot of us that are in this business, or a lot of folks in the industry side of the business, don’t always understand the ins and outs of IDIQ contracts and or multiple award schedule contracts. Can you give us, as you always do, a very simple explanation, and about these vehicles and why they’re so important for both the agencies and for mission focused suppliers like ourselves at NIB.

Larry Allen: 11:54

Sure. So I think at their core, government indefinite delivery, indefinite quantity contracts offer a faster and easier way for agencies to obtain the solutions they need than if they start a procurement from scratch. Speaking specifically of the multiple Award Schedules Program, this is currently a $51 billion a year program at GSA that doesn’t count the tens of billions of dollars revenue generated by our counterparts at the VA for their part of the program. So it’s a very significant program within the federal acquisition space. It’s the leading commercial item and service program in government, and we have thousands of suppliers that provide a full range of commercial items and solutions, and federal customers can buy from those in a matter of days or a couple of weeks, rather than the months it might take to do an online-only procurement, for example.

But having a scheduled contract, Soraya, as in other IDIQ contracts in government, it’s really a fishing license. It’s a fishing license that gives companies an ability to pursue government business with what I call kind of a “Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval.” Somebody has looked at the contract pricing, they’ve looked at the terms and conditions and a warranted contracting officer who is that somebody who has said these are terms and conditions and prices that are fair and reasonable and in the best interest of the government.

So this company has earned the right to sell their solutions through our program, because we know we’re offering good pricing from reliable, vetted contractors, and that we’re doing it (in almost all cases) with competition. So, you know, while it’s not like, you know, if you’re awarded a multiple award schedule contract for your widget, I can’t be awarded a contract for my widget either. There are multiple widget contractors on schedule, and we all have to compete with each other on a daily basis for business, and that further keeps pricing fair and reasonable and keeps service levels high. If I don’t deliver, my customer may switch and go to you the following time. So I have to always be on my A game and be participating.

But there are also two separate skill sets. It takes one skill set to obtain a schedule or IDIQ contract, and another one to be able to sell through it. And you know, when I, when I’m out talking with companies, I accentuate that. You know, it certainly is time and cost and specialized knowledge to obtain one of these contracts. Hopefully less specialized than it used to be, because we’ve made the rules easier.

But it’s another matter entirely to be able to successfully use that tool that you’ve been given.

Soraya Correa: 15:10

Yeah. No, that’s very true. That’s very true. And I know that, you know, from an agency perspective, at least from the customer side, the agencies that use the schedules, excuse me, they are a tool of convenience, they really are.

They make the job a lot easier. It gives us an opportunity to get what we need, when we need it, in a manner that’s much faster than, like you said, if we started from scratch. So that’s fantastic. So I want to talk a little bit about competition. And you know me, I’m going to be selfish: I’m going to talk about our organization.

But know from your perspective what are some of the barriers that organizations like ours, nonprofit agencies, and our associated nonprofit organizations that work with us? What are some of the challenges that we face when we’re competing in the federal acquisition marketplace? I mean, I know, yes, that that, you know, from an AbilityOne standpoint, you know, 4.8, we have a preference and it’s mandatory for sole source. But in reality, we are competing in many instances.

We are really competing out there. So can you talk a little bit about like, you know, what are some of those barriers that we confront and how we can might, might be able to overcome some of those challenges?

Larry Allen: 16:14

Of course, I think there are a couple, but I think, you know, this comes in my experience of working with the AbilityOne Program and with NIB specifically over a number of years, as well as some of your nonprofit agencies. So I’ve seen some of this firsthand, and I think there are a couple of issues that jump right off the page at me. One is while the acquisition professional world, that contracting officer world, probably knows about the AbilityOne Program (although you never want to assume), they probably know about it. The customers, the end user customers may or may not. The number of discussions, for example, that I’ve had over my career with, you know, agency CIOs, not necessarily the CIO, but the deputy CIO or chief security officer or somebody in the CIO organization.

They don’t… they understand the technology. They understand the consumables that make the technology work oftentimes, but they don’t know about the AbilityOne Program. And it’s important, therefore, to make sure that if we’re in that program, then we’re out reaching out to the customers. Whether it’s a CXO, whether it’s a program manager in another part of the agency. You know, if you look at contractors, commercial contractors, the ones that are most successful and understand that there really is a procurement sales rectangle, there’s the end user customer that you’ve got to reach out to and establish a relationship with. There’s that person’s boss sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes you want to make sure that the boss who controls the budget is thinking what your customer is thinking about. There’s the contracting officer that you ought to talk to. And while you’re in creating those relationships.

And then something that I’ve always said, Soraya, that’s really been driven home to me since I’ve been inside GSA, and that’s somebody from the CFO’s office, you know, the CFOs a lot of companies really don’t realize just how much of a role they play in ensuring that things get bought and that there is money to buy the things that individual business units might want inside of an agency. So, you know, you’ve got to know that. And then the other thing that I would say that is a barrier is agencies will put together contracts that provide what I call a “soup to nuts solution.” So they’ll go out and they will outsource for example their IT all their IT needs. And included in that IT contract is not just laptops and printers, but it’s things like toner and paper and the other stuff that makes those machines and things do their job.

And if they put together a soup to nuts contract because for them it’s easy. All right. We can set it and forget it. We’ve awarded it now it’s in place. But if you’re in the AbilityOne Program and you’re providing the consumable portions of that that go along with the contract, you may never even know about the project because you’re not able to bid on the other parts of it. So you really also have to increasingly look to industry partners to say, hey, you know, we can provide these solutions for you. And even if you’re doing if you’re doing with business with DOD, guess what? DOD gets the small business credit for using AbilityOne. You know, we like it to extend to civilian agencies and see where Congress takes us on that.

But today, you know, that’s almost half of the market for many companies, if not more. So, you know, you have to, to leverage that. And, you know, you should never assume that your customer or contracting officer knows you want to be the better educated contractor that is providing them with the solutions and taking them through what could be an uncertain landscape.

Soraya Correa: 20:37

Yeah. No, that’s, that’s excellent advice. I- that kind of dovetails into my next question, which is like, what advice would you offer to nonprofit agencies that want to continue to expand in the federal business market while staying very closely focused and rooted in the mission of employing individuals who are blind?

Larry Allen: 20:55

Sure. So I think there are a couple of things I would add to my earlier comments. One is the federal government market is now and has been for about 20 years at least, probably a little longer, a net buyer of services and solutions. So that doesn’t mean there’s not a market for products. The government still buys lots of products.

And as I look out at my office, I can see chairs and desks and laptops and screens and task lighting. So we buy all of those things too. But if you really want to try and grow along with the federal market, you ought to be looking at some degree of service. And if you look at some of your small business competitors that have historically made their mark by selling products, they’re taking the same approach they’re looking to see. All right, if I’m not just selling printers, can I sell a print management solution?

And how does that print management solution integrate with an agency’s IT infrastructure? Is there an opportunity for me to either be a prime for that, or should I offer a print management solution as part of a team from a larger integrator? So that’s where the, the real growth is. You know, we will always need a certain amount of ability. One Skilcraft pens and toner cartridges – I might I know that I have several skilcraft pens and paper that I’ve used over the course of my career. Which is great. But if you’re looking to grow, you need to diversify. And in this market, diversification comes on the service and solution side.

Soraya Correa: 22:51

Excellent. Excellent advice. So now I’m going to turn to what you’re currently doing. Public policy. Much of the policy that you’re developing.

And so as associate administrator for GSA you help shape a lot of government wide policy. How do you approach balancing efficiency and equity and ensuring that the processes work well… but also include organizations like ours or like our nonprofit agencies, to make sure that they’re a part of the solution, that they have a seat at the table, if you will, to help support the government.

Larry Allen: 23:24

Sure. So I think it’s really important to look at not just the far work that we’re doing that I referenced earlier, but it goes deeper than that on a couple of different levels. We’re also, for example, looking at we’re not just looking at we are revamping our own general services acquisition regulations. I know that our partners and other agencies are reevaluating and revising their own FA supplements. But Soraya, it goes deeper than that.

What we really want to achieve, what I really want to achieve, is making this way of doing business a key and and essential and well recognized part of the acquisition workforce. So, you know, we can change the rules, but if we don’t try to change the culture, we’re never going to be as successful as we could be. And so that’s one of the things that I’ve really been pushing my Team to make sure that whether we’re talking about formal courses through the Federal Acquisition Institute, Acquisition Letters, or whatever type of day to day training we perform for the acquisition workforce, we’re highlighting the ease of use and the expectation that the acquisition workforce will use the new tools that have been given to them, so that they can realize the savings and competition and achievements that we want them to. The ease of use, of being able to get from point A to point B. Things like reducing procurement life cycles, you know, that’s that’s very important to this process.

So if you know those things as a contractor, which includes your nonprofit agencies, you know, your mind should be clicking saying, all right, well that’s what we’re trying, that’s what the government’s trying to do. How can I show that I’m a good partner inside of that reality? And I think contractors absolutely have a part in providing some of the education to the acquisition workforce and others that are not part of the acquisition workforce. We have very robust training ourselves. We have some excellent people in our Federal Acquisition Institute. I’m really happy about some of the people, one of whom we rated from DHS.

Soraya Correa: 25:54

Yeah. She’s wonderful, I agree.

Larry Allen: 25:59

Absolutely. And but you know, we can only with that we can only be so many places at once. So we really need our contractor partners to help us spread that message and make sure that they’re helping us with the evangelization of new and easier ways to conduct government business. So you know that those are a couple of key points that I would I would reference.

Soraya Correa: 26:27

Yeah, I, I just want to focus on what you said about culture. Culture is the most important thing. It’s it’s it’s changing a little bit of that mindset. I went through this at the Department of Homeland Security. I think we’ve created over years, many, many years, there has been a culture of risk aversion that has been created in the federal procurement space, and we have to try to eradicate that some.

It’s not that that you can’t focus on risk. You should focus on risk. You should always know the risks that you’re taking. But it’s okay to take risks. You just have to measure them, understand them, and be prepared for the potential that it could come to fruition. Have your mitigation strategies in place. So, I think the cultural change is extremely, it’s fundamentally important. And it’s something that I always emphasize.

Larry Allen: 27:13

It is, Soraya. And it’s something that’s coming now from the top of our agency here at GSA, our new administrator, Ed Forst, has said repeatedly and I suspect will continue saying, I hope he does that. You know, we want to be smart about risk, and it’s exactly the type of point that you just made. We don’t want to be by any means risk averse. We never move ahead if we keep doing the things we’ve always done.

But, you know, we also don’t want to be reckless. But if we can take informed risk and we are smart about how we are deciding on the risks we take, I think that’s a net positive and that’s where we want to be. And that’s another key point that I want to mention. One of the things I’ve been trying to do here, and that I’m advocating for others, is that we want to make sure, as senior executives in our agency, that we have the backs of the acquisition workforce when they make those non-traditional acquisition decisions. I think there’s a lot of concern in the acquisition workforce that if they break the mold and try to do something that hasn’t been done before, that the first thing they’re going to do is get called on the carpet, there’ll be a protest or the IG will come down and visit with them.

And all of those things may still happen. But to know that your supervisor and your supervisor supervisor has your back on well made decisions, I hope would be a key factor in having these changes and the flexibility that we’re giving people to have the maximum impact.

Soraya Correa: 28:58

No, I couldn’t agree more. It is one of the things that I’ve constantly emphasized that leadership has to stand with their people. They have to support them, and they have to recognize that things go wrong. Right? Tight. And it’s not that something went wrong – let’s, let’s course correct. Let’s figure out how we solve the problem. But don’t be afraid of something going wrong because things are going to go wrong. And as long as you didn’t do anything with malicious intent or line your pockets. That’s what I always used to tell people: if you did the wrong thing for the right reason, you’re probably going to be okay. Don’t worry about that, right? But it is. I think it’s extremely important. And I’m glad to hear you say that, that you’re focusing on the leadership.

Because as we talk about training the workforce and, you know, I engage in these conversations all the time, I always tell people, yeah, we can train the workforce all we want, but if we don’t have their backs, if we’re not supporting them, if we’re not letting them know you can do these things and you will be successful, we will help you be successful in doing these things. And when it doesn’t work out, we’re going to stand with you. We’re going to take care of you. We’ve got your back. You don’t do those things., people aren’t going to take the chances.

Larry Allen: 30:07

Well, that’s it. And I’m really encouraged by Ed Forst’s comments that say, you know, “Success is something that the team gets to celebrate. Failure is something that executives need to take accountability for, and be right there with those people and figure out how to make it better the next time.”

Soraya Correa: 30:30

I agree, I heard his commentary yesterday. I was back there cheering. He probably didn’t see it. Because that was something that I was constantly talking to our leaders about. You gotta have your people’s backs.

And by the way, I never forgave a leader who came in to me and said, Bobby Joe screwed up. It was like, no, that’s yours, baby. That is, you own it. Just as I tell my staff here, when we don’t get it right, I own it. That’s, that’s for me to own. But when we get it right, we get to go out and celebrate it. And you guys get to take all the credit because that’s important.

Larry Allen: 31:02

That’s right.

Soraya Correa: 31:03

So. So, you know, I know we’re getting close to time, but I did want to give you an opportunity to talk a little bit more, if you’d like about the revolutionary FA overhaul. You guys have made such phenomenal progress on it, and it’s exciting to see the changes you mentioned earlier. You know, I think you’ve gotten rid of like about 1100 “shall’s and must’s” and hundreds of pages, you know, gotten into plain English.

So let’s talk a little bit about revolution and far overhaul. Again. Soraya’s got a geek out on this stuff because, you know, I love this stuff. What’s next? What’s next? As you as you’re working through, I know you’re still like going in the process of changes and stuff, but what’s going on?

Larry Allen: 31:40

Sure. So what’s happening now is the Office of Federal Procurement Policy is taking the lead in having discussions with industry before we go out for the formal rulemaking. They started that at the beginning of the fiscal year. And it continues. Now, I know that our administrator, Doctor Rhodes, has been out with a number of people from his organization, and ours, talking with industry and other stakeholder groups getting their input and getting their ideas.

No one person, as you know, has the corner on good ideas. And so all of those comments and inputs, those will be distilled into how we put together our proposed rules moving forward for the next phase of this process, which is the formal rulemaking phase. Right now we are looking at around April, the beginning of April, to come out with the first batch, batches of proposed rules that will, you know, the original idea is to enshrine the deviations that we’ve worked on into actual rules.

But it will be more than that, Soraya: we want people to tell us what we got right in the first phase. We want people to tell us what we missed in the first phase. We want people to make their own recommendations. And even if they say, “You know, this change, this deviation that you made was well-intended. But let’s talk about some of the unintended consequences of making this deviation.” That type of comment is important too.

So you’re going to see, starting around at the beginning of April, a rolling set of changes in FA cases that we’re going to have for public comment. And I would urge all of your listeners and your organization please read through these. Please do submit your comments. They will be read. They will be considered.

They have to be considered. We do want to make sure, you know, we haven’t done this process in over 40 years. We want to make sure that we get the most out of this effort and really put the revolutionary in revolutionary far overhaul. We’ve been tasked by the Office of Management and Budget to work towards a goal of full implementation of the end of FY 26. I think that’s going to be a little bit difficult to do because of the shutdown we had at the beginning of the year, but still, that gives you a sense that this is not something that we’re going to be waiting on.

Oh, well, you know, three years from now we’re still doing RFO cases and comments. No. This is a short term thing. It definitely has a sense of urgency. We are definitely going to work as close as we can to get as much as we can out the door by the start of the next fiscal year.

And if we can’t get it all in, I’d like to make sure that we do it by the end of the calendar year. And I’m sure OMB will tell us if they tell us that or something more aggressive like Thanksgiving. Or don’t plan to watch the parade?

Soraya Correa: 35:13

Yeah, exactly. No. And look, I agree with you. It’s really important because if you don’t do it fast, if you don’t get it done, it will languish. And we know how that goes. And then all of a sudden, 1500 other things will get in its way. And this is too important and too big not to do. And you’re right. We don’t want to wait another 40 years to do that. And that, because unfortunately, that’s probably what it will take is another 40 years, right? You and I probably will not be involved in that. At least I don’t think so. But who knows, right? Yeah.

Larry Allen: 35:42

That’s right.

Soraya Correa: 35:44

So one of the things, you know, I, I there are so many initiatives going on which I, which I think is are really exciting. One of the ones that I’m very excited about always is, you know, American manufacturing. And I’m just kind of curious about as we’re, as we’re writing the rules of engagement. One of the things I’ve always thought throughout my career in federal government: Why don’t we require federal government agencies (forget for a moment everything else) across the board to buy American made products and goods where, where they’re available? You know? So I’m just kind of curious if that’s playing into that at all. Just, just a curiosity question.

Larry Allen: 36:27

Well, we certainly have a very active Made in America Office in the white House. And our team here at GSA works with them on a regular basis. And not just my office, the Office of Government-wide Policy, our Federal Acquisition Service people, and even our government general, our general counsel’s office works with the Made in America Office. And, you know, there are certainly a lot of activity on that front that would forward the premise that you just raised, which would be to encourage people to buy American and the government buy what is made in America. You support American industry. Make sure that we have greater control over our own supply lines and supply channels. All of those things, you know. And creating jobs and skill sets that we may need to be self-sustaining down the road. That’s all things that are, you know, under active consideration and discussion. What that’s going to manifest itself out in terms of a policy, that’s over in the White House’s side, not my not my pay grade!

Soraya Correa: 37:47

But yeah, right!

Larry Allen: 37:48

But certainly, you know, if people are wondering if the government is asking those types of questions and is operating on that type of mindset, the answer is yes.

Soraya Correa: 38:00

Okay, good. No. And by the way, throughout my career, I always thought that. I always thought, why are we even, you know, talking about this? This should be like the norm for the federal government.

But certainly we understand, you know, what happens with trade agreements, act and all the different acts that have come out. But it’s kind of interesting to watch the impetus in that area. So, you know, again, you know, I can’t thank you enough for sharing that with us. That’s extremely important. And thank you for the work you guys are doing on the revolutionary car overhaul. I think it’s going to pay dividends in the long run, and we really appreciate it and we appreciate being part of that.

So I want to turn back to your career and your leadership and seek out, you know, some information and advice that you would share with us. So you know, what drives your commitment to educating others in this field? And how can leaders use their platforms to strengthen public trust? I think it’s extremely important to, to really understand.

Larry Allen: 38:55

Well, it is, and I think there are a couple ways to answer that question. One is I think there’s almost nothing like Overcommunication. If anything, no matter how much we’re talking and communicating, we always operate better as both government and industry, in my experience. If we’re communicating openly and regularly and that’s, you know, one of the things I tell contractors, in fact, I told this story earlier this week is, you know, everybody’s eager to tell their story. I know I’m eager to tell my office’s stories.

You’re eager to tell the good news stories at NIB. But sometimes we ought to listen. We gotta listen first and then make sure that we can adapt our story and what we want to tell to the people who just told us what their pressure points, what their concerns, what their ambitions are. Because if we take the time to hear what they’re saying, we’ll be a better business partner. So, you know, I think that’s very important.

One of the other things, Soraya, I would say, unfortunately, is that we can’t rest. You know, you’ve been in this business a long time. I’ve been in it a long time. You and I have both seen cycles through where we saw things happen, where, like, depending on what was happening, we were either very happy that it had happened or sad that this took place. But then when you think you get it put to rest, inevitably it comes back around again with newer people who are coming in and they have their views on things, they have their experiences, and they don’t know that something’s been tried before and didn’t work.

So it’s back again. So, you know, and I think the biggest example of that is commercial item acquisition. You and I know well the work that we did to make commercial items the default for government buying back 30-some odd years ago. And it seemed at that point that there would ever be a question that commercial item acquisition would be the default way for the government to buy common goods and services. And yet, before I came into GSA, that the tide had definitely changed back to more government specifications, more government unique items. “Well, we’ve got this commercial solution, but it really only meets a certain percentage of what we do or we think it does.” Because everybody wants to wrap their special sauce around it.

So, and one of the things this administration did, one of the very first things the administration did was put out an executive order saying, we’re going to be a buyer of commercial solutions. And that’s something that, you know, we restated that we’ve reemphasized it, but it’s the example that kind of proves my point. If we’re want efficient and common sense government procurement, it’s something we’re going to have to constantly go out and advocate for and use our experience and use our insight to make sure that the system doesn’t get bogged down by sidebars, but is something that government customers can rely upon to help them meet their

Soraya Correa: 42:25

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. So, so looking ahead, what innovations do you think are really going to change the procurement landscape? When I talk about innovation, it’s not just AI and technology, but what policies, what do you think is really going to change the procurement landscape for the better? Of course.

Larry Allen: 42:39

Well, I think it’s probably not going to be any one big thing. I think it’s going to be a series of smaller things. You know, certainly one of the factors that’s going to change acquisition is going to be AI. You know, where we at GSA are already embracing AI as part of our acquisition solutions and things to free up our acquisition professionals so that they don’t have to do some of the rote work they’ve always had to do. But, you know, if you were to have told people 8 or 9 years ago that they were going to be doing a lot of AI use, most of them would have given you a blank stare or thought that, you know, you just had the Doctor Who marathon session.

And I mentioned that because I think, to some extent, another of the factors that’s going to shape this market aren’t known yet. You know, we’re going to have a new technological development, we’re going to have a new set of needs for different missions. That industry is going to have to be responsive to, and they’re going to bring some of those innovations to us, and we hope that they do. So, you know, security is certainly a paramount concern, and the things that gov

But, you know, one of the things that I hope we remember from the Covid days is the need to move at that speed of need that you and I have been talking about today. Because sometimes that gets lost in the shuffle and sometimes there’s a tendency, at, at any level, it’s not particular to any one part. It’s everywhere, that tomorrow is just as good as today and sometimes it’s not. So, you know, we need to make sure we have that acquisition system down that moves where it needs to go.

And realize that, you know, while you’re going through it, it may not seem like the market changes are all that significant. But if you look up 12 months from now, you’re going to look back and say, “Hey, wait a minute, where did that go?” Or, “I had no idea I was going to be doing this.” So you know that adaptability is going to be key no matter who you are.

Soraya Correa: 44:59

Well, and technology is a game changer. It’s been a game changer in our industry. It’s a game changer for the people that we support in individuals who are blind or have other disabilities. It does make your life easier. You just have to know how to use it.

You have to respect technology, meaning understand it and make sure you keep yourself out of trouble with it, because security is going to be a big issue. And the more and more that we adapt our systems and our processes to technology, the higher the risks, right? But the higher the rewards as well. That’s right. So it’s a balance.

Larry Allen: 45:31

Sir. If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Soraya Correa: 45:34

Exactly. I say that all the time! So turning to the folks that are coming into the workforce – who I envy, because I think they’re coming in at a great time. But then when I came in, it was a great time. We had just awarded the Competition in Contracting Act. I’m going to date myself. 40 plus years ago it was competition in Contracting Act. The FAR was introduced, right? So I was there at the very beginning of the FAR. And so now we’re going to have some career professionals that are going to come in, hopefully come in to our government and they’re going to see this new FA, the revolutionary FA, as we call it, the RFL.

What advice would you give them as they’re coming through the door on how they can make a difference? Why? First of all, why come to the government? Why is it important? And then what difference can you make? What should you be thinking about moving forward?

Larry Allen: 46:23

Well, I think the reason to come into government is at a macro level. It’s because the things that we do every day matter. And even when you’re talking about government acquisition, the things that we do inside government acquisition every day matter. And if you want to make sure that you can see the success from your labors, I think there are very few opportunities that provide that to you the way government service does. You really have the opportunity to make an impact.

The other thing is the most the impact you can make is by using all of the flexibilities and being smart about how you do things. And part of that is most definitely don’t listen to Larry, don’t listen to Sareya. Don’t listen to the people who’ve done it for a million years. Although we will, let me hasten to add, help keep you away from the minefield. But within that understanding, I want people to look at things from a new perspective and a new standpoint.

We need new ideas. We need fresh energy. You know, there was a time when both you and I were part of that vanguard, and we certainly made an impact, and we both learned from and departed from some of the things that our predecessors had done. And so I would hope that today’s federal workforce would do the same thing. And one of the things that I’ve been really pleased to see since I came inside GSA is just, you know, boy, let me tell you, to a certain extent, I’m really glad I grew up when I did, because I’m not sure I could compete with some of these younger people! We’ve got, we’ve got some really sharp folks working here, and I’m sure there are other agencies as well.

And so I’ve been really heartened to to see that. They’re definitely raising the bar, not just raising the bar in terms of government service. You know, these are professionals that any organization would be happy to have. And I think that, you know, I hope that we can continue that and, and continue to train the leaders of tomorrow and bring them in and keep them energized and interested. But, you know, it’s- being in federal service is definitely unique. You know that you’ve been in federal service, your federal service, far longer than I have been. But it’s that ability to get things done and to see the fruits of your labor. That is a nice incentive.

Soraya Correa: 49:12

It is. And you get to work on things that you might not otherwise get to work on. I agree with you. I mean, some of the missions that I supported, that you’ve supported, who else gets to do what we did, right? So I’m always grateful for my my government service. I’m so happy that I was able to spend the time that I did.

And even from the outside looking in, sometimes I’m a little envious because I would love to be in there, you know, making sausage. But it’s a lot of fun to watch other people do that as well. And I, like you, I’m excited by the workforce that’s coming in and the energy, the enthusiasm that they bring and the opportunities that they bring with them.

Larry, I know I’ve taken up quite a bit of your time. I can’t thank you enough for joining me today. I did want to give you an opportunity. If you want to share any final thoughts, any final piece of advice for us and NIB and/or the nonprofit agencies or just in general, any comments you’d like to make?

Larry Allen: 50:03

Well, again, I think in closing, I’d say, you know, I’ve always been a big supporter of the AbilityOne Program, especially NIB. I think it’s a great organization, I think it fulfills a need. Like any other contracting organization, though, you’re going to have to make sure that you stay on top of and ahead of the changes that are coming in your market, and that means participating in things like this and coming to the conferences and keeping up on your daily reading. So, all of those are important things to be a successful professional in any market segment, they are no less true in this one.

I really appreciate the opportunity to be here today, Soraya, and hope everybody got something of this and look forward to talking down the line.

Soraya Correa: 50:52

Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you again for your leadership, for your partnership with the program, and for all that you are doing and will continue to do in the in the months and hopefully years ahead. So again, thank you so much for joining us today.

And let me take this opportunity to invite everyone to join us at our conference and expo, Realizing America’s Promise, the NIB / NAEPB Conference and Expo, which is held February 24th through 28th later this year. Thank you.

Outro: 51:21

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About National Industries for the Blind:

Since 1938, National Industries for the Blind (NIB) has focused on enhancing the opportunities for economic and personal independence of people who are blind, primarily through creating, sustaining, and improving employment. NIB and its network of associated nonprofit agencies are the nation’s largest employer of people who are blind through the manufacture and provision of SKILCRAFT® and many other products and services of the AbilityOne® Program.

For more information about NIB, visit NIB.org.

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[Mission Driven Series] Transforming Federal Procurement for Broader Access and Impact With Larry Allen