Scott: Don’t ever just say, okay, well, I’m going to wait till Monday or I’m going to wait until the end of the summer or next month is my month, just start.

Hoby: Go to the career fair.

Scott: Take a look where you’re at and just go figure out what’s next. There are endless resources. I talked in the beginning about growing up in the 80s and 90s and not having those resources, you have all the resources in the world right now.

Welcome to the Heard and Empowered podcast presented by the National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: Welcome back to the Heard and Empowered podcast, and today I am so excited to be having a conversation with my good friend Scott Collins, who is an employee at NIB and has a great story to tell and so many nuggets to share with us. Scott, welcome to the Heard and Empowered podcast.

Scott: Thank you for having me.

Hoby: Well, it’s an honor to have you. And you and I have gotten to know each other a little bit beforehand, I just think there’s so much here that you have to share with me and to inspire me personally, but that’s a little selfish of me because we’re talking to a large community here. Tell me a little bit about yourself, you know, where are you based and what do you do right now?

Scott: Sure. So I live in Maryland. I’m born and raised in Maryland. I currently work at the NIB headquarters in Alexandria, Virginia. My current role is the program manager for the Contract Management Support–CMS–program, where I’m overseeing 42 task orders, so 42 different teams throughout the country, 14 different NPAs are involved.

Hoby: Nice, thank you. And what is an NPA?

Scott: NPA is a nonprofit association.

Hoby: I love that. And they’re the agencies of folks who are served by NIB as a whole, correct?

Scott: Correct. So NIB serves as the CNA, central nonprofit, and then we have all of our NPAs, which are our associated agencies. And the NPAs are the ones on the ground, boots on the ground doing the work, performing the services, manufacturing the products. And NIB is CNA overseeing all of that when it comes to management, new business, growing business, working with the AbilityOne Commission, getting stuff on the procurement list, all that good stuff.

Hoby: I love that. And for listeners who want to know, the AbilityOne Commission is a group,  you can hear a show earlier about this, but it’s a commission that was started ultimately in 1938 by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt to allow blind folks and folks with disabilities to do great work and produce highly needed products by the United the States government.

Sorry, you’ll hear a lot of TLAs here, three letter acronyms, right?

Scott: Yes. Correct.

Hoby: Well what I want to know about is Scott the man, Scott the individual who came to NIB. And I asked you beforehand, tell us the full story, as much as you want, of how you got to NIB. So who is Scott the kid? Who is Scott the teenager? And how did we end up at NIB?

Scott: Sure. So NIB is based out of Virginia, and like I stated I was born and raised in Maryland. And full transparency, I had never heard of NIB until I was, probably, 35. So I was born in 1980 and I do have retinitis pigmentosa. And I have family members who also have it, so I knew–and my parents knew–at a very young age that this is what I have. I had kind of an idea at a very young age what the disease is, what path my vision is going to go in.

One of my earliest memories is, probably four or five years old, being at the park at night, just little kids chasing and catching lightning bugs. And then I remember around six, seven, not being able to do that anymore. And distinctively asking my mom, why aren’t there lightning bugs around anymore? And she had to tell me, well, you’re not going to be able to see at night. Kind of something that you’re going to have to accept.

And I think learning this at such a young age, it’s good and it’s bad. I didn’t wake up one day and have to learn what it was, but it did allow me to process a lot of it, having that knowing… I guess knowing what’s going to happen, it’s–I guess–maybe easier?

Hoby: I think it is easier. I think it makes it, I think it drops that barrier to entry, if you will, to blindness. I was born blind, and because I never really knew it any other way, I feel kind of lucky in a weird way.

Scott: Yeah. And I will say I do currently have some sight. I guess I’m labeled visually impaired. Being visually impaired, and I’m sure you can relate being blind, you’re put in situations where you have to find workarounds, which is just another way of saying problem solve.

So I think most visually impaired people and blind people that I’ve met in my career are very good at problem solving. They’re very good at thinking outside the box because they have to. When a simple task could be something like housework or going to the grocery store, a sighted person can hop in the car and just do that or just reach over and grab this. A blind or visually impaired person, there’s a few more steps involved, and you need to take that time to develop those steps and find those workarounds. And if you can take that and move that into your career, I think it sets you up to be pretty successful. And I found myself in school doing that a lot.

Hoby: It’s so amazing what you’re saying about if you can solve a problem, if you come to a situation with a mindset of let’s figure out how to do this, versus there’s no way I can do this, it’s absolutely mind blowing what’s possible and what we can accomplish.

Scott: Absolutely.

Hoby: Tell me a little more about your upbringing. So six years old, had a hard time seeing the lightning bugs.

Scott: So I have a brother who also has RP and I have an uncle who has RP. My parents, it’s my mom’s brother who has RP, and so she was very aware of the disease and had a great knowledge. So she was able to walk me through stuff. And my dad, obviously, was right there. Very supportive parents, very supportive family. I couldn’t have asked for a better upbringing; love, support, understanding.

School was challenging for me growing up in the 80s and 90s, this is before ZoomText and any kind of screen readers. I remember in elementary school, I had to go tell each teacher, “I can’t see the board. I can’t.” And they’re like, “Oh, no problem, why don’t we just move you up to the front row?” “Okay, what if I still can’t see the board?” And those are challenges for me, but another example of workarounds. I had to spend a lot of recesses and lunch breaks catching up with the teacher, getting those notes, which is okay. That’s part of the deal, I got it done.

But it kind of was a trend for me leading into my career. School, to me, was a very big challenge because I didn’t have those resources. One, because they didn’t exist. I think the biggest resource I had in grade school was they could blow up something in big font, which is okay, but it’s not perfect. I was lucky, I played sports with my friends, hand-eye coordination obviously wasn’t my strong suit. I was able to play in some soccer teams and did okay with that. But swimming was my absolute love. It was a sport that I could do. I could be successful at it. It really became a huge part of my life at a very, very young age.

So I continued through school, again, knowing I always had this disease that I’m losing my sight. And what do you do with that? It’s just kind of sitting there. And holding on to that, it’s tough, but I tried to put my energy somewhere else and swimming was, you know, when I had those times where I was down or I was frustrated, the pool was kind of my sanctuary to get through, I guess.

So fast forward a little bit, time to go to college. So I go to college and it’s still a struggle, school, but that’s what you do, you go to college. And my plan was, because I am now working, I worked all through college, worked all through high school.

Hoby: Wow. What did you do, by the way, just as a side note, in high school and college?

Scott: RP, if you’re familiar with RP, it’s an interesting disease. I was a lifeguard and a swim coach all through high school and college. Yeah, so I had enough sight to lifeguard.

Hoby: That’s incredible.

Scott: And it was great. I was at the place I wanted to be. I loved the pool. I loved the water. I loved the sport of swimming. It was great. So I would have these great experiences at work, and then I would be at college and working on a computer without ZoomText, my face is up against the screen, my nose is practically touching it to read. My neck hurts after I’m doing work. And this is terrible. So I told myself, okay, you’ve just got to get through college. You got to graduate. You made this investment, you’re here. Parents are supporting, they’re behind you. It’s time to buckle down and get through college, graduate, and it’s going to be okay.

So I graduate college, what’s next? What’s next for me? And all my friends were getting jobs in offices and all jobs that involve computers. And I said to myself that’s the last thing I want to do. I’ve been on a computer in college here and I can’t stand it. This is pre-ZoomText. So coaching, I had some success and I got a job position right out of college coaching, managing health clubs.

I enjoyed it. I kind of had the mindset of relying on my strengths to make up for my weaknesses. I was able to coach. I liked being on my feet. I loved talking to people. I loved moving around. I loved sales. And I really didn’t have much time sitting at a desk. This is great, I can do this. But that’s two jobs now I’m working.

Hoby: So the other one, one is a swim coach at an athletic club, and the other is?

Scott: Well, the swim coach was completely separate from the health club. The health club, I was a manager.

Hoby: Oh, got it. So you were literally managing a health and athletic club and swim coaching simultaneously.

Scott: Correct. So I would be up early in the morning, either coaching or opening the club. The club opened at 5 am. And then at night I would be at the pool coaching more and giving private lessons and that kind of stuff.

Hoby: Mostly to kids, by the way?

Scott: What’s that?

Hoby: Mostly to kids?

Scott: All ages. Anywhere from learning how to swim to I had clients who needed to pass a swim test to get into the military. People in their 40s and 50s who wanted to compete in their first triathlon and didn’t really know much about swimming. I had a laundry list of different types of people. I had swimmers trying to qualify for Olympic trials. A whole list of different levels and I loved it. I loved every minute of it. It was a blast. It was an absolute blast.

Coaching was a blast. The other job, and I eventually left that job and went into a retail job. The retail job and the health club management job, it was, okay, I need health benefits, I need to have some type of retirement. Coaching is all basically private contractor. You’re on your own when it comes to that kind of stuff. My parents, they raised me, you’ve got to have your benefits. You’ve got to take care of yourself. You’ve got to take care of your future. And like I said, I had fantastic parents and I listened to them.

Now, fast forward some more, I’ve been doing this since I was 23. I’m probably 29 at this point. I started dating a woman who’s now my wife, who’s been just so incredible. And for anybody to start dating someone who works seven days a week and knows this and continues to stay around is a very amazing woman.

Hoby: Did you meet her through swimming?

Scott: I did not.

Hoby: That’s awesome.

Scott: Which you think I would, as much time as I was spending at the pool.

Hoby: No, it’s great.

Scott: And she obviously knew about my vision, which was a struggle for me. A big struggle growing up was how do I even handle this?

Hoby: Right, how do you explain it?

Scott: Education-wise, people you’re either blind or you’re not. What is visually impaired? Put on some glasses. What if that doesn’t work?

Hoby: Right. People don’t understand.

Scott: People don’t understand. And they still don’t understand. As a kid, I would say, “Oh, I have this eye disease.” “What do you mean you have a disease? Is it contagious?”

Hoby: Oh, that’s scary. Yeah. Yeah, right.

Scott: One of the scariest conversations I ever had, I told her point blank, I said, “This is what it is, I can talk about it. I’m sure you’re going to Google it and find out more information.” And I expected her to be like, okay, and then kind of find a way to get away. But she didn’t. She stayed and she’s just been so supportive and so helpful in everything I’ve done. And I don’t think I would be where I’m at today without her.

And I say all of that because as we’re dating, she would be putting in my head, “So, do you want to work seven days a week the rest of your life? Because I don’t know if that’s the best thing to do.”

Hoby: Right, exactly. “We have a life together.”

Scott: “We have a life,” yeah. I know.

Hoby: Yeah, yeah.

Scott: Like I said, we got married. We had our first kid, our daughter. I was still doing what I was doing. And I still had the mindset of relying on my strengths to make up for my weaknesses. And I have to be a hard worker. I think anybody who’s visually impaired has to work hard.

Hoby: If you want to be successful, you’ve got to work hard.

Scott: You don’t really have the opportunity to, you know, “Oh, I’ll do it later.” You need to have your stuff lined up. You need to be kind of tightened up on what you’re doing, or you’re really going to make mistakes. And I said, “Okay, I’m just going to work really, really hard and it’s going to work itself out.” I really made the mistake of not being realistic.

And I can admit that now. It took me years to get there, but I can admit that. And she would be pushing me to, you know, hey, go apply for some jobs. You never know, it doesn’t hurt. So I’d apply and apply and apply and never hear back. Everybody I spoke to had a different opinion on how to handle the disability. Do you bring it up? Do you not bring it up?

Hoby: And as someone who’s visually impaired, it’s interesting because you can kind of, if you want to, hide it, right?

Scott: Absolutely, which is something I struggled with because if you met me, at that time in my life if you met me, you wouldn’t know by meeting me. Now, if it was, “Hey, do you want to go out at night to this place?” Okay, then it might show up. But if you just met me during the day, casual, you would never know, which was tough for me.

So my wife is extremely persistent, which is something I love about her. So she encouraged me to go to a career fair for people with disabilities.

Hoby: Big jumping-off point.

Scott: Changed my life. Absolutely changed my life.

Hoby: Right. What a step to take, Scott, of you would never know if you had a disability, to “I’m going to go to a career fair and identify as someone with a disability.”

Scott: Yeah.

Hoby: Kudos to you.

Scott: Yeah, that was huge for me. Being a coach and having, gosh, at this point, over a decade of coaching professionally, that was my identity. I was Coach Scott. We would go to shops, out to eat, to the grocery store. Somebody would always come up to me and talk to me. It was either a parent of a swimmer or a swimmer or a former swimmer. That was my entire identity. So that was a big, big step in my life.

Hoby: So what happened that day that you went to the career fair?

Scott: It’s funny how things just kind of work out, and it’s almost like the movies sometimes. I’d never been to anything like that before in my life. And to be perfectly honest, it was like, why am I going to do this? I’ve applied to like 40 different jobs, why am I going to go get 40 rejections all at once? I’m not even hearing back. Why would I even do this?

Hoby: And you were sort of feeling, honestly, like, “Oh my God, why is she pushing me to do this?”

Scott: Kind of, yeah. I mean, I obviously wanted better. I think when you’re in a situation where you’re working hard and you’re not growing, you’re not getting where you want to be, it really starts messing with your personality and you get some bitterness in you. You get some anger, some frustration, and it comes out in your personality. And that was definitely happening to me. I wasn’t aware of it at the time, but looking back, it really was.

The way to get better is to do things that are hard and put yourself out there. And that’s exactly what she was pushing me to do, which I am forever grateful for.

Hoby: Take the challenge and push.

Scott: So it’s coming up, the thing is in like a week and she’s like, “Well, what are you going to wear?” “What am I going to wear?” It’s a week away, I haven’t even thought about that. “I don’t know, a button-down shirt.” And she’s like, “How’s your suit?” “I don’t know.” Typical guy, I have a suit from years and years ago. It’s probably too big. She’s like, well, we’ve got to go to get a suit. Get a suit? I don’t have an interview.

Like I said, she’s very persistent. So I got the suit, got the resumes. I’m terrified. I go there, and if anyone has ever been to one of these things, it’s just a massive room. This one is at the Ronald Reagan building down in D.C. Huge building.

Hoby: Huge building and loud and echoey building.

Scott: Very loud, very echoey, very intimidating for visually impaired, very intimidating for non-visually impaired. So I looked at the list of all the different companies and agencies that were going to be there and kind of made, you know, this is where I definitely want to stop by. All the big ones, the Boeings, the Northrop Grummans, the Lockheed Martins. The Navy Yard is right near us, so we’re going to look at that one.

And it was all kind of like looking at my resume, this coaching, this coaching accolade, this coaching accolade. “What does this have to do with anything to do with these companies? What am I even doing here?” And I go to all these different booths. And every booth, it’s, “Oh, yeah, you sound like a great guy, go back to school.” “I got a degree already.” “Oh, well, go back and get this.” “No.”

Hoby: “No, dude, I did that. I spent four years in front of a computer.”

Scott: Right. Four years. I’m in my early 30s, I did all that.

Hoby: Come on. Yeah.

Scott: Come on now. And it was always, or the famous line, “Yeah, go get some experience in the field and you’ll be great.” Well, how am I supposed to do that?

Hoby: I always say experience is what you get five seconds after you need it, you know?

Scott: Exactly.

Hoby: And everybody says, oh, you need experience, you need this. But I’ve got it already, come on.

Scott: Yeah. I had this in my head where I know how important this was to me, to my wife, my dad. It was just so important, I was like I got to have a win. I got to have some kind of contact. Something has to come from this. And one of the companies I circled as one I want to check out was National Industries for the Blind. I didn’t know anything about it. Never heard of them. But I figured, hey, if anybody would want Scott with RP, it might be National Industries for the Blind, right?

Hoby: Exactly.

Scott: It was the last booth. Not by choice, it just happened to be where it was positioned and I did my rounds. The last booth I went to, end of the day, and I met Billy Parker. My life completely changed that day. And it was, “How do you feel about working in contracts?” “I have no experience in contracts. What do you mean?” He’s like, “We have this great program that closes contracts. Do you know anything about closing contracts?” “I would like to, but I have no idea what that means.”

“Okay, how are your computer skills?”

“Well I graduated college, but okay, I guess.”

“All right. Well, we’re going to get you signed up for these DAU courses, Defense Acquisition University courses.”

And again, I’m like, “Oh no, no, I don’t want to go back to college.”

“They’re free, Scott, don’t worry about it.”

“Oh, okay. I can work with that.” So he got me signed up for these courses. He stayed in touch with me. So I was still working, and then at night and spare time I had, I would take these DAU courses.

Hoby: And were they offered through a university or?

Scott: It’s through the government. The DAU is run by the government, but NIB has a set of courses. It’s shrunken down a little bit, back then there were five courses you could take. And they were dedicated to the CMS program. And it was all online. It was all self-paced. It was great.

So I took the one course and it was a 20-hour course, it’s Con 100. A lot of people listening, hopefully CMS program people will be listening, have taken the course, they know what I’m talking about. Does it teach you everything you need to know? No. Does it give you the confidence to say, “Hey, this is something I think I can really do,” and give you that confidence to put yourself out there and just go for it? Yes.

So I took my courses, contacted Billy back and said, “Hey, I’m done. I did all five.”

Hoby: “I’m done with the courses, bud.”

Scott: Yeah. “What’s going on?”

Hoby: To give some timeline, Scott, how long did it take from when you went to the career fair and met Billy Parker to when you contacted him and said, hey man, I’m done?

Scott: I’m trying to remember back. This is back in 2014.

Hoby: Okay, but how much time passed between you meeting with Billy and you completing the courses?

Scott: I’d say three to six months.

Hoby: Nice. So he still knew exactly who you were?

Scott: Yes, he knew exactly who I was.

Hoby: Sure thing.

Scott: Yeah, probably three to six months.

Hoby: So you reach out three months later, six months later to Billy, and you say, “Hey man, I’m done.”

Scott: He immediately said, “Okay, so here’s what we got. We’ve got some openings at Fort Belvoir.” And, of course, my head went from, “I live in Maryland, that’s in Virginia. How’s that going to work?” He’s like, “Okay, we got this thing at Chester in Richmond.” “That’s even further, Billy.”

Hoby: “That’s even further, dude.”

Scott: Then he’s like, “Okay, what about downtown D.C.? That’s a metro ride away.”

“I’m okay with that.” So he put me in touch with Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind, another organization that I’d heard the name before, but I wasn’t aware of what they did. I thought they were more teaching like white cane training, that kind of stuff. I didn’t know they actually performed services.

Hoby: And they hired folks.

Scott: And they hired folks. I was like, well, this is intriguing. Because one of the biggest fears is I’m going to be the only visually impaired person. They’re not going to be able to help me. I’m going to be more of a nuisance than someone who’s productive. And all I want to do is be productive.

Hoby: Absolutely, and give back.

Scott: And give back. And just contribute and do what I think people are meant to do. Support my family just like anyone else, any other man in the world. And I thought, okay, if I’m working at Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind, they’re going to accept me straight up.

Hoby: For who I am.

Scott: There’s no question. So I go there.

Hoby: No need to hide your blindness there.

Scott: No. Nothing to be hiding. You don’t need to feel ashamed. You’re in. And that was a real eye-opening moment for me. The first time I had a conversation with somebody who wasn’t my brother or my uncle who was visually impaired, was at Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind. And it was so refreshing to hear just someone else that really knew. I mean, my wife was very understanding. She was always there for me. She always listened to me.

Hoby: But she didn’t really know.

Scott: But she didn’t know what it was like.

Hoby: Yes.

Scott: To have someone to relate to in that was just, this is it. This is what I want to do. So very quickly I was moved to Fort Meade. I was working at Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind, closing contracts for NIH. And I think within about two months I was moved to Fort Meade, Maryland.

Hoby: Where is Fort Meade? In Maryland?

Scott: It’s in Maryland. It’s kind of close to Baltimore.

Hoby: Okay. Yeah, for sure.

Scott: And my supervisor at the time said, “Hey, I’ve got this opportunity. It’s more money. You seem like a quick learner, are you willing to go to Fort Meade?” I’m like, “How in the world am I going to get there?” I told him, I said, “What, am I going to Uber there? How am I going to get there?”

And he looked at me and said, “You don’t think I thought about that already? There’s a commuter bus that leaves right from the metro station by your house that drives right to Fort Meade.”

I said, “You can’t be serious.” He said, “I wouldn’t have brought it to you without that.”

Hoby: Now that is pure thoughtfulness.

Scott: Oh, it was great. I’m like, again, I am where I’m supposed to be. I’m in the AbilityOne® program, this is exactly where I’m supposed to be. Again, fantastic. So I go to Fort Meade.

Hoby: Scott, I’m getting emotional hearing this because it’s so… Just understanding how one day can change someone’s life is just uncanny to me and incredible.

Scott: It was wild.

Hoby: So you go to Fort Meade.

Scott: I go to Fort Meade, and remember now, I’d only left working two jobs full-time a couple months before.

Hoby: And you’re a little bit of a fish out of water. Like, holy crap, I’m not working.

Scott: Very fish out of water.

Hoby: I’m not working seven days a week.

Scott: Yeah, weekends were very difficult for me. Any kind of free time was very difficult for me. I didn’t understand.

Hoby: What do I do?

Scott: What do I do?

Hoby: Yeah.

Scott: There were a lot of adjustments. And again, my wife being so supportive and so understanding, it was a lot for me. It really was. It took me a couple years to kind of adjust to, say, a normal work-life balance.

So I got to Fort Meade. Admittedly, I was terrified. When I was at Columbia Lighthouse for the Blind, it was their location. We don’t have the government all around. We’re in a safe, very safe work area, I guess. There’s a safety net. If I don’t know what I’m doing, I can look over to my supervisor and say, “Hey, what am I doing?”

Hoby: It’s safer than that, “Okay, here I am, all on my own and I’m it.”

Scott: Correct. When I go to Fort Meade, I’m going to be integrated with all the government employees. I’m a true contractor on-site at the government facility, which now I see as a great opportunity. But I was terrified. What if I get there and I don’t know what I’m doing? What if I get there and I ask too many questions? What if I get there and I can’t even find my cubicle? Everything imaginable was going through my head.

At the same time, I felt like everything’s riding on this.

Hoby: Let me just step back one step. Is Fort Meade connected with Columbia Lighthouse?

Scott: So this is where the beautiful CMS program comes in. So NIB, being the prime contractor, we have our 14 different agencies, or NPAs, that work in our CMS program. Columbia Lighthouse is one of those NPAs that works on the CMS program. So NIB’s job is to go out and find new business and land these new contracts. Fort Meade, the defense media activity at Fort Meade, an agency on the base, did a contract with NIB. Then we subcontracted to Columbia Lighthouse to do that work.

Hoby: Perfect. Perfect. So now you’re on a government base, literally full-blown, no other blind folks doing this work?

Scott: Yeah, I was on a five-man team, and I was the only visually impaired person. Everybody else was sighted. Yeah, and our cubicles are literally in the line with all the government employees.

Hoby: And I’m just giving that context just so people know this isn’t a place where blind people come to work all the time. You were literally going to work on a military base as a government employee.

Scott: Yep, went through security every day, checked in with everyone else. No different than anyone else of the 30,000 people working on that base.

Hoby: So you started there, you were terrified.

Scott: A really, really neat experience for me. I gained so much confidence there, especially after college I avoided the computer as much as possible. Yeah, it was scary. All the steps, the leaning in, touching the screen with my nose, just what am I doing? Now I’m on this base. I like what I’m doing. I’m doing well. I’m having success. I still have that mindset that everything is riding on this. If I don’t do an amazing job, it’s all going to go away. This is too good to be true.

I worked really hard. I worked my tail off. And I took the DAU courses, there’s unlimited DAU courses and it’s for all government employees to improve their skills and acquisitions. So I set a goal for myself to do an hour a day of DAU courses. So I took course after course after course after course while I was working at Fort Meade, which is great, I’m only improving my acquisition skills.

So fast forward a little bit, about a year. I get to the point where I’ve been doing this contract closeout thing. The contract closeout, the CMS program, it’s really good for two things. One, it can provide you a great job doing good work. Two, it exposes you to this small little slice of what you’re capable of and what contracting is all about. I kind of took that path too. I was like, “Okay, I’ve taken all these courses, I want more. I’m doing this little slice, I want to do more.”

So what do I do? I go talk to the chief contracting officer right on base. I said, “Can I have a moment of your time?” And I explained to him my situation. He’s like, “Oh, okay. You know what you should do? You should go get into a program where they take somebody fresh out of college and they teach you all this stuff and they send you to different places.” And he’s like, “How old are you? He’s like, you can’t be more than 24 or 25.”

I’m like, “Sir, I’m 34 years old.”

“Oh, well, you’re too old for that. Why don’t you just try applying for government jobs then?”Now we’re back into this thing again. So I start applying for some jobs. No luck. So what do I do? I pick up the phone and I call Billy Parker again. Good old Billy Parker. And he says, “I’m so glad you’re doing well. It’s fantastic, I love to hear what you’re doing. Have you ever thought about working at NIB?”

“What does NIB do? I thought you guys just help find people jobs.” No idea that there was any kind of thing past that.

So he got me in touch. There was an associate contract administrator position open. I applied for that and I thought, “Okay, this is great. I get to use what I’ve learned in contracting. I get that next piece, and on top of that I’m going to be helping blind people. I’m going to be helping people with all the struggles that I go through, hopefully prevent them from going through them. This is so cool.”

Hoby: Huge. That’s gold.

Scott: Yeah. So, so rewarding. So I got hired, which was wonderful. All those fears came back. Now I’m in a new building, in new systems, “What do I do?” Completely out of my comfort zone. “What if I can’t do it?” What if I’m, you know, I’ve left the job that has a paycheck… “Was this the right thing to do?” Again, my family, my wife, my kids told me I’m doing the right thing. I went for it.

One of the beautiful things about the AbilityOne® program, and anybody who’s visually impaired, or any kind of disability I think in general, when you’re working in the private sector, it’s an unfortunate truth sometimes that no matter what you do or don’t do, people might look at you and say, oh, well, they can only do this much. We don’t want to make their life hard and give them extra work. And it’s unfortunate.

And in my mindset, and I talked about it a little bit earlier, you can get very bitter and very angry and frustrated. And I felt very held back at my previous job. Not Columbia Lighthouse, before that, the retail and the health club management. I felt very held back, very limited. Yeah, overlooked. When I got to NIB and I sat down and I got over that fear, it was, okay, the gloves are off, the chains are off. No one’s holding me back.

Hoby: Now it’s my time to shine.

Scott: It’s my time to shine. Like, let’s get this thing done.

Hoby: And I think you and I share something, which is it’s like, “Okay, give me the opportunity to either prove myself or fail.”

Scott: Exactly. Yeah, don’t look at me any different. If I can’t do it, I can’t do it, but it’s not because of my vision.

So, frankly, I went at it pretty hard. I always looked for work. So I had my task, I was only an associate, so I had my task to do. I made a point to always look for work.

Hoby: Like more to do.

Scott: And then I went around and said, okay, we have this team here. What are a couple of things that the team can’t stand doing? And I found that and I made a point to get really good at it. I wanted to stand out.

Hoby: That’s so smart.

Scott: So I got promoted to contract administrator, which was neat because going from an associate to contract administrator, as an associate you’re working with somebody. You’re doing a lot of admin work. You’re toning your skills, that kind of stuff. When you’re a contract administrator, you’re more independent. So you’re doing a lot more of that stuff that I wanted to do when I first came to NIB. I wanted to do more independent contract.

Now, like I said, I went pretty hard at this, I kind of looked at next what I want to do, where do I want to be? And I wanted to be a program manager, but I knew I didn’t have the resume to get there yet. So I kind of looked around and said, “Okay, what am I missing? What can I do here at NIB to make me ready for that next step?”

I had a good friend who was a real go-getter and he had a position as a senior analyst in service contract and pricing. So his job was to work with the NPAs, with our service program managers here, and he would develop pricing for service contracts. And he would write the proposals to submit to the government and to the potential customers.

I was like, “Okay, well, if I could do that, there’s really nothing holding me back from being a program manager.” So I started talking to him because I knew he was a go-getter. I knew he wasn’t going to be around forever.

Hoby: Right, he was like you.

Scott: He was like me. And I said, “Hey, do you mind kind of walking me through what you do?” And he kind of walked me through and I was like, “Hey, can I help you on that project?” So in my free time I learned his job and started assisting him, basically being his associate.

Hoby: Without really telling anyone?

Scott: No, I didn’t tell anyone.

Hoby: You didn’t hide it, but it was your deal.

Scott: No, I didn’t hide it at all. We were both in the contract and pricing department, so I was just a co-worker helping a coworker. And he was a great mentor to me. Great guy.

Hoby: What’s his name?

Scott: Josh Crunkleton.

Hoby: Josh Crunkleton. Love it. Shout out to Josh.

Scott: And he moved on, he’s actually working at a Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind now. So he prepared me and he knew what I was doing. He’s a smart guy and I was honest with him. He was a good friend of mine. As soon as he left, I applied for the job and got it.

Hoby: I love it. And that was the manager position?

Scott: It was a senior position, it wasn’t a management position. It was a senior position. So senior analyst. So I did that job for about a year and a half and what do you know, the program manager position for the CMS program came available.

Hoby: Because the person left.

Scott: Because another person left. And I said, how could I not apply for a program manager position at the CMS program that started my whole AbilityOne® career? So I applied for that. I got it, and it’s just been a blast. I’m excited to come to work every day.

Hoby: Scott, I love it.

Scott: It’s awesome, yeah.

Hoby: Oh my gosh. So for our listeners, our shows are usually 15 to 30 minutes, this one’s going to be longer because this story had to be told. Your trajectory and the way that you just told that story is going to inspire people to get out there and take that first step and get work.

I have a few follow-up questions based on what you shared with us that I can’t wait to ask you. The first one is I think so much of what we do and so much of how we get to where we want to be is because of the mentors that we have. So someone like your Billy Parker is my graduate advisor in chemistry, is my actually good friend Kevin, who motivated me to do what I’m doing in business. And so a shout out to Kevin Eastman on the show here for that.

You told us about your mentors. Would you be here where you are now without great mentors?

Scott: It’s a real tough one, you know, my mom and dad were great mentors. Would I be where I’m at if I didn’t have such supportive parents?

Hoby: I can answer that question myself and say absolutely not, for me.

Scott: I don’t think I would have been. And then if I wasn’t blessed enough to meet my wife, would I still be trying to grind two jobs right now? I don’t know.

Hoby: She’s so proud of you.

Scott: I hope so.

Hoby: I’m sure she is, man.

Scott: I hope my kids and her are very proud. I hope so. I try hard.

Hoby: How many kids do you have now?

Scott: Two kids. If she didn’t push me, would I ever have met Billy? If Billy didn’t throw that out to me, would I ever have, you know, tough to say.

Hoby: Wow. And this idea of being able to work with blind people and help blind people realize their dreams and realize a career for themselves, you mentioned just how good that felt. For you, when you go to work, and you don’t think about this every day, I’m sure, because work is work and it’s a day-to-day grind and all that. But if you reflect, and I often do this, I reflect at the end of each year and I think, “What’s happened this year? What have I done? How have things gone?” How does it feel to know that you are helping blind people realize careers?

Scott: I mean, it’s kind of heavy because being in the position that I’m in, as the program manager in CMS and remembering where I was my first day on the job as a CMS closeout specialist on the other side of the fence at the nonprofit agency, where I was before then and where I was after that first day as a closeout specialist, when I find a new customer and we sign a new contract, that contract could be for five people, three people, 10 people. That’s 10 more Scotts that are having that moment where their life’s about to change. Their opportunity is right there in front of them now.

That’s a really, really good feeling. When it comes to the struggle of working two jobs or not being appreciated or underemployed at a job, I don’t think my story is unique. I think there’s a lot of people out there that are doing that right now.

Hoby: That’s true. And they’re probably listening to the show. And now’s your time to really come together and work with AbilityOne® and change your lives in that way.

Scott, do you get to talk to those Scotts, those 10 years ago Scotts that much? Those people that you help?

Scott: I don’t get to talk too much to the actual team members. I speak to the supervisors a lot and the CMS program is so great because it’s such a springboard. A lot of our supervisors are people who started as specialists and have been promoted to supervisor position.

Hoby: My friend Rebekah Grieb was on this podcast a few months ago and she was one of those who started as an associate and worked her way up to supervisor. I’m sure you know her.

Scott: I do, I know her well. I speak to her a lot in business.

Hoby: Fantastic. Fantastic.

Scott: She’s great.

Hoby: She’s another example of just someone who said, “Listen, I’m going to go grab this. I’m going to do it.”

What I really want to get a sense of is what do you think NIB can do for people who don’t know what to do next? NIB and the nonprofit agencies they serve. For someone that’s listening that’s like, you know, their life is not fun. They don’t know what to do. They’re either working too hard or they lost their sight and they’re out of work and they’re going, “What can I do?” How can NIB help these folks?

Scott: Sure. The way to, I think, look at it just from an advice standpoint, I think first you would need to look at you. Take a look at yourself and figure out, “Okay, here’s where I’m at.” And when I say that, I mean, “Okay, here are my skill sets. Here are my strengths. Here are my weaknesses. Here’s what I like doing. Here’s what I don’t like doing.” Then look, ”Okay, where do I want to be? What do I want to change? What do I want to do?” Then connect the dots to get there.

Now, where NIB comes into there is, “My soft skills are really poor,” or “My computer skills are really poor,” contact NSITE. NSITE is an agency associated to NIB, which has all those different programs.

Hoby: And a job board and all the rest.

Scott: The whole works. But you don’t just want to call someone and say, “Hey, I’m John Doe. I need a job.” That’s not what we’re doing. You need to put some investment into yourself. And the way to do that is really assessing where you are at and where you want to be. So finding that. And then if anybody wants to email me, call me, talk shop, that’s fine. I’m all for that.

Hoby: So you don’t mind if I put your email and contact info in the show notes?

Scott: Absolutely. I will tell you what it’s like to be on the ground. I can tell you from the prime overseeing the contract, what we’re looking for, and we will get you ready to, hopefully, get on the ground and close some contracts and get you on your path.

Hoby: That’s incredible. Scott, you mentioned a nugget of advice, unfortunately before I had the recording on, that I want to hear in this show. What advice do you have for anyone looking to get started looking to do anything?

Scott: Remember that it’s never too late to make that change. It’s never too late to get started. I did not join the AbilityOne® program until I was 35. I’m now 43. I couldn’t be happier with my work right now.

Hoby: I love it. I love that so much.

Scott: I wish I could have done this, started this right out of college. Who knows where I would be right now? But don’t ever just say, “Okay, well, I’m going to wait till Monday,” or “I’m going to wait until the end of the summer,” or “Next month is my month.” Just start.

Hoby: Go to the career fair.

Scott: Take a look at where you’re at and just go figure out what’s next. There are endless resources. I talked in the beginning about growing up in the ’80s and ’90s and not having those resources, you have all the resources in the world right now.

Hoby: Go take advantage of them, folks. And no matter if you’re 18 or you’re 65 or 85, it’s not too late.

Scott, I think you’re going to have a lot of people reaching out and you’re going to have a lot of people getting very emotional hearing your amazing story, much like I did. And I just want to say, before we close this out, is there anything else you think listeners need to know?

Scott: No, I just want to stress that you have support. You’re not alone. Like I said, one of the most refreshing things to me was having that first conversation with someone else who was BVI. So find those mentors, find out where you’re at and where you want to go. Find the resource that will get you there.

Hoby: Scott, this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

Scott: Thank you.

Hoby: To learn more about Scott, look at our show notes. All his information is there. Don’t be a stranger, reach out anytime. Scott, thanks for being my guest today.

Scott: Thank you for having me, my pleasure.

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