Intro: 00:01

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. We’re on a mission to empower people who are blind, low vision, or visually impaired to build fulfilling careers, gain personal independence, and take the next step toward achieving their own American dream. Guests from all walks of life share their journeys and how they overcame challenges they faced along the way. Whatever your interests, experience, talents, or career goals, listen to discover important connections and unlock the resources and inspiration you need to chart a new path. Ready to be heard and empowered?

Soraya Correa: 00:35 

Hello and welcome to Mission Driven, a special series of the Heard & Empowered podcast. I’m your host, Soraya Correa, president and CEO of National Industries for the Blind. In this series, I sit down with the people who power our mission to create meaningful employment for individuals who are blind, low vision, or visually impaired. My guest today is Brian Osborne, executive vice president of The Strategy Group Company, a national advertising agency. Brian is a veteran political operator who has executed marketing programs for hundreds of political campaigns, issue advocacy organizations, governments, universities and corporations.

Brian, welcome to Mission Driven.

Brian Osborne: 01:14

Thank you, Soraya. Happy to be with you.

Soraya Correa: 01:16

Thank you. So, prior to this public policy forum, this May, The Strategy Group Company partnered with NIB, National Industries for the Blind, on the National Issue Benchmark Survey. Give us the big picture: when designing the survey, what were you hoping to uncover and why is it important to our mission of creating jobs for people who are blind?

Brian Osborne: 01:39 

Yeah. Great question. And anytime we’re looking to do public-opinion research, I always think it’s important to stay grounded in why we do this in the first place, so we can understand the results on the back end. And first and foremost, polling is just an objective and disciplined way for us to understand public perceptions. It helps us be informed about the environment in which we’re doing our advocacy.

But it also ensures when we communicate with the public or politicians or regulators who are accountable to the public, we understand how the public perceives what we do. Further, a survey can help us refine how we talk about what we do and really refine how we say it, and make sure that we’re hitting the right notes in every communication and to every audience. And lastly, it becomes a bit of a physical aid, right? It can reinforce what we say with credible data to back it up in the face of decision makers or skeptics. So, ultimately, I think it’s really important to be grounded in truth, and that helps make sure when we do communicate, we’re doing it in the right way.

Soraya Correa: 02:51

Yeah. No, I, I wholeheartedly agree. I’ve been around surveys and used surveys repeatedly throughout my career to help tell our story. Whether I was working for the government or working here at NIB, I think it’s really important to have those those factual tools, those, those results, and be able to bring them into the conversation to help people better understand what we do, why we do it, and how we do it, and how well it’s working. But I also know that, you know, when you’re doing surveys, survey methodology can make or break the credibility of the findings.

So, I thought we should talk a little bit about the steps that you took to ensure that the survey accurately captured where Americans stand on key issues, like what issues are most important to Americans today?

Brian Osborne: 03:40 

Yeah, sure. And I, I feel like, with every survey I do, I always want to make it a point to talk through the methodology, because polling is a topic that always raises eyebrows and always faces a bit of skepticism. And we want to make sure that our research is good research. And the reality is, public opinion research remains the best way to rigorously measure public perceptions. And we want to be careful in our design to make sure that our sample represents the public.

So, first and foremost here, we took a really large sample for this survey. We had 1,329 adults across the country that participated. That’s a really robust sample and more than the industry standard would ask for. Then a second, we do data science on the back end, right? We use response-adjusted sampling and weighting to ensure that our sample looks like the population.

So, in layman’s terms, essentially we work really hard to reach Americans that we know are less likely to take a survey and try to give them an equal opportunity. And then we weight the survey on the back end to match the population. So in this case, this is a survey of adults right. So we do have census information and data that we can weigh to make sure and be confident that what we’re looking at here with this survey isn’t just anecdotal, these are real signals from the American public.

And then you add… Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

Soraya Correa: 05:10

No, no, please go ahead.

Brian Osborne: 05:12 

Well, you asked there, you know, ultimately, you know, what’s the most important thing that Americans were interested in? You know, and in polling this is a question that we ask in every single survey: What’s the top issue? And it is a crucial question because it really lays the groundwork of how we understand the environment in which we live.

And it’s, our survey confirmed a trend that we’ve seen essentially since post-Covid. And that is Americans are economically concerned. They’re wary of wasteful spending. They’re concerned about things like jobs and the economy and pricing. And that is impactful to us in our advocacy that we do.

It just means that we need to be prepared and always remember to talk through what we do, and make sure that we’re mentioning things like being cost effective and jobs focused and impact oriented.

Soraya Correa: 06:11 

I know that’s extremely important, and I apologize for having interrupted you, because you went to a point that I was going to make that, you know, our program is not a procurement program. A lot of people think of it as a procurement program because it’s mentioned in the federal acquisition regulation, and we’re working with the federal government and we obtain federal government contracts. But our program is really about jobs. It’s about creating employment for individuals who are blind or visually impaired, enabling them to be productive members of society. And what a lot of people don’t know is that when we bring these people into the workforce, when we allow these people to come into this workforce and give them the opportunity to to work and earn an income and become taxpayers, then we lowered their dependence on social programs, right? So things like Social Security Disability Insurance, etc… So I think it’s really important to properly, you know, to understand that public, what’s foremost in the Americans’ mind, in this case, economics, if you will, or the economy. And then enable us to help them see how our work helps them. So yeah, so I appreciate, you know, what you’re saying about really understanding the perception. And I really like hearing how, you know, the sausage is made, right? How do you guys come up with the, the quantity of people that you’re going to survey and where you’re going to go survey them? Because I think that’s what gives credibility to a survey. And I think credibility is extremely important in any survey instrument that you use.

So, my next question is a little bit more about the survey itself. What insights immediately stood out to you and made you think, wow, this is really an important topic? I mean, I’m sure when we approached you about doing the survey, you’re like, okay, you know? Right. But why is this really important? Okay.

Brian Osborne: 07:59

Yeah. Look, I think anytime, I almost want to go back to that moment in time where you ask us to do the survey, because that’s a really important moment when we think through why we want to do this, what do we need to accomplish? And then, even beyond that, sort of thinking through what we anticipate the results to be, and then we want to use this survey to be a little bit of a gut check on our conventional wisdom, right? We are in this issue every day and talking about it every day. And even in that moment there, Soraya, you can immediately start to hearken to all those important key attributes of the organization just off the top of your head, no problem, right? But we’re going to ask these, this, these, attributes of the American public to see what they think. And let’s, it’s an opportunity for us to be humble and allow people to give us their opinions.

But when it comes down to the results, right, I always like to think in key findings, right? What are the most important things that we can take away in normal speak, not data speak, that we can always remember?

And the most important thing that we can take away from this survey is confidence. All things being equal, support for the AbilityOne Program is high and wide, meaning it is very, very popular, but also enjoys broad support across the entire spectrum of the American public. When we asked Americans, do you support the AbilityOne Program or oppose the AbilityOne Program that helps employ blind and disabled people in the United States, 77%, more than three out of four, said they supported it and only 5% opposed it.

That is a massive number. It’s really hard to find in this polarized political environment, 77% of people that can agree on anything. And that support, yeah. And that support holds in when you dig into the details and look at the cross tab. That support holds at a 6 to 1 ratio across the entire spectrum of age, race, gender, party affiliation, and political philosophy.

And all of this is before we even start to describe some of these great attributes of the organization and what the AbilityOne Program does. So this is completely in the neutral. We start at 77%. We have a very, very high floor when we talk about what we do. And so I bring up the time between when we start the survey and when we get the results, because, if you, if I were to establish my priors on this question and guess what do I think support for AbilityOne would be, I probably would have said something like 40 or 50% and I would have been way wrong, right? But I’m, you know, maybe I’m just skeptical in that I believe that there’s, you know, low salience and people may not know what it is and, and automatically go to no. But the reality is, my gut was incorrect. And we can in fact – and this is why I go back to confidence, right? We can feel fairly confident that when we talk about what we’re doing, especially to the American public, that we’re going to get positive interaction with what we say. So, yeah, so so again, I think it’s just it’s it’s it’s really important. And then, you know, we go back to why we do this for public advocacy, right? We want to be able to show to the lawmakers and the regulators that we have the American public on our side. And we do.

Soraya Correa: 11:38  

Yeah. No, I,  so it’s interesting that you said that, you know, if we went back to that point in time when we were wondering, like what was going to be the response, I kind of am with you. I wasn’t expecting a 77%. I was expecting something lower, probably in that 50 percentile range because people are skeptical anymore, right? Especially if it’s a government program. People tend to be somewhat skeptical.

So. So yeah, I was very pleased with the results and I was very surprised by the results as well. I also know that we asked a question about, you know, one of our, our main public policy advocacy programs. We’ve been working for years, even before I got here, on potentially, you know, asking Congress to give a 1% procurement set aside for the AbilityOne Program so that, you know, of the federal government dollars that are spent through procurement, setting aside 1%, which is a very nominal amount, take it from somebody who used to be a procurement executive, to be set aside for our program, for agencies to buy from our program so that we can increase employment. What did you find when you asked about that question?

Brian Osborne: 12:46  

Yeah. So we can also feel fairly, fairly confident when we’re requesting that set aside. So, support for the set aside was 59%, only 14% opposed. So again, there’s really high support and also wide support. When we look at the cross tabs of this particular question as well.

You can see fairly pretty much across the entire spectrum of the American public, there’s, there’s support for the set aside, although there is a delta between support for AbilityOne versus support for the set aside. And I think it’s important, while there is a difference, I think it’s important to address why there’s a difference, or at least in my opinion, why there’s, why there is a difference. And this really comes down to the difference in asking someone to support an idea versus asking someone to support the specific policy. Right, right.

And and let me just say, first and foremost, the support for the policy is there and it still is high, but when you start to get into the details of the policy, even if we’re talking about a moderate, 1% set aside, but we start to get into the specifics that can trigger feelings around federal spending or policies or, you know, governments choosing things like that. Those skeptical instincts can start, start to sort of come through. And what’s important for us from an advocacy standpoint is we just need to make sure that we know our audience. When we’re talking to the American public, we need to stay emotion driven, values- impact oriented, jobs focused, right? And we can still talk about that set aside, right? But we want to make sure we prevent the political jargon, the policy jargon from creeping in when we’re talking to the public.

And then it’s a, it’s, you know, when we’re talking to regulators and lawmakers and having meetings with influencers, of course, we need to get into the details of those policies. But broadly speaking, when we’re talking to the public, we want to stay, you know, story driven and values driven.

Soraya Correa: 15:03

Sure, sure. No, that makes perfect sense. And in fact, you know, when you talk about, so I came from the procurement world so I kind of know what a set aside is. And I know how it compares to other government programs and other set-aside programs like the small business set asides, etc., because I worked on those kinds of programs.

And so I understand, and I understand that about the public perception, because you’re right. When you start getting into policy jargon, all that skepticism starts to come up as the government, you know, doing wasteful spending, etcetera, etcetera. But I think if we could put in context for a little bit as part of our discussion, that NIB is like one of the best-kept secrets in the federal government. A lot of people don’t even really know what the National Industries for the Blind is, how we work within the AbilityOne Program, even what the AbilityOne Program does. And so, you know, I think it’s important at this point to kind of talk a little bit about that, and I thought I’d share with you some of our stats.

So for example, in 2024, NIB, National Industries for the Blind and the associated nonprofit agencies that actually employ the individuals who are blind, employed over 5,100 people who are blind and paid more than $172 million in wages and benefits to these employees under the AbilityOne Program as a whole in 2024. The program in and of itself, our counterpart organization SourceAmerica, as well as NIB, we employed a total of 39,000 Americans who were blind or disabled, including 2,500 veterans or wounded warriors. This is employment that happens across the country, almost in every state, and we deliver mission-essential products and services that are used by the federal customers, who many of which are actually warfighters, first responders, and members of the federal service. So when we talk about what we do and the impact of our program. Think about that for a moment.

We’re not only impacting individuals, you know, who are, who are blind. 39,000 Americans, we also are impacting our veterans, who are wounded or who are blind. So, I think that’s extremely important to know. And through this year, we always, by the way, at the National Industries for the Blind and within SourceAmerica, as part of the AbilityOne program, we pay minimum wage.

So our, our folks are not being employed at lower rates or, you know, not being treated fairly. They’re treated like any other employee out there. They get the wages, the benefits, the same thing that anybody else does. And finally, you know, to share with you another piece of information, a very important piece of information. Back in 2023, an organization by the name of Mathematica conducted a study about the AbilityOne Program.

And it showed that for every dollar spent, the AbilityOne Program generates $2.66  that goes back to the federal government, because we’re creating taxpayers, wage earners, we’re reducing that dependency on government programs, and we are fulfilling government needs through the procurement program. So, I think it’s really important to kind of understand the context of what we do. Any thoughts you want to share with us?

Brian Osborne: 18:13

Yeah, I mean, I think those stats are, are really great. And, you know, working in public communications, a lot of times we’re really thinking through, you know, is this a left-brain message or a right-brain message? And there are going to be people who are going to be persuaded by the heart, and there are going to be people who are persuaded by the data, right? And these are perfect examples of, of those left-brain folks who are going to really latch on to information like this.

And I like how you have it laid out here in really approachable numbers. Right? I think everyone can understand a $2 and 66 ROI for every dollar spent to the federal, from the federal government. And people understand wages, right? They understand, they can understand the dollars and cents of how much they make per hour and what that means to someone.

So I think this is all really, really good. And the first point that you made there is that, you know, the NIB is the best-kept secret. So I want to go, I want to pull on that string a little bit, because part of the goals of the survey here was to try and test if that was true or not, and, and what that means. And I actually think we’ve proven that the NIB is a very big secret in the federal government. So as a part of our survey, we asked Americans if they’ve ever heard of the National industries of the blind, along with some other organizations.

And what we found is, essentially. three out of four Americans, of course, have said they’ve never heard of NIB. And in a way, this is kind of great news. Having low awareness essentially means that we have a blank canvas, and on top of that, we have the AbilityOne Program and all these amazing success stories and attributes that are extremely popular that we can use to sort of fill that void and create more positive associations with the organization. So, we’re in a situation with, we’re sitting at a very low floor, but we have a very high ceiling with all of our tools in the toolkit. And I want to talk about some of those attributes because I’ve mentioned it a few times.

So I do want to make sure that we point some of these out. And there are a few that I really want to lean in on. But first and foremost, virtually every attribute that we tested about the AbilityOne Program had overwhelming support, anywhere from 73 to 77% support. And again, these are really good numbers and they’re really, really hard, it’s really, really hard to come by public policies that enjoy this much support. And so we tested, we asked a series of questions, essentially asking people how much more would help their support now that they know this. So first, 77% support, learning that more than 2,500 blind or disabled military veterans have currently found meaningful work through the AbilityOne Program, a data point that you mentioned there. Our second-best performing attribute 76% support, learning that many of the veterans employed through the AbilityOne Program are wounded warriors. Again, 76% support, learning that many blind or disabled people in the U.S. wouldn’t have a job otherwise, meaning 40,000 Americans would be unable to work, 76% support. And then, 74% support, learning that AbilityOne helps blind and disabled, the blind and disabled, find stable jobs, and reduce long-term dependence on federal government benefits. Everything that we tested here tested really, really well. And again, going back to one of our most important goals for this survey, is how can we share these things to the public in a way that is effective and persuasive, that can help us garner more support in the public? And, at the end of the survey, we asked that question again, do you support or oppose AbilityOne and the 1% procurement? And what we found is, support for the AbilityOne stayed really, really high.  And the procurement set aside increased up to 63% from 59. So proof of concept, right? If we go out into the world and talk about what we do in a persuasive way, we’re going to hang on to our support and win the hearts and minds of other Americans.

Soraya Correa: 22:36

Wow. That’s fantastic. So let’s talk a little bit about driving economic growth and supporting American manufacturing, which is one of the the key tenets of the current administration, and building capacity for national emergencies. So let me tell you a little bit about my experience. Like I said, I haven’t been here.

I mean, I’ve been here for roughly 18 months, but I came from the federal government after 40 years of service. And so, I have firsthand knowledge of a lot of the mission space that the government supports. And so when I go out and visit our nonprofit agencies, and as I have learned about NIB, I’m struck by the level of support that they provide to the federal government and the programs that they impact. So, you know, I’ll share with you a little bit about what I’ve learned. NIB and its agencies are at the heart of American manufacturing.  Your key providers of items that are used by many of the men and women in our armed forces, everything from neckties to cold-weather gear. We put the pads that go in their helmets. I mean, it’s just impressive the kinds of things that we do to support our warfighter. We also have agencies that supply emergency kits and other supplies, like disposable gloves that are used by medical personnel. Fire hoses that are essential for first responders, and safety vests worn by our public transportation staff.

So whether we’re manufacturing, sewing, assembling, or packing these items, our employees are working right here in the United States so that when emergencies arise, the items that are needed are already here. And of course, it’s very important to recognize that these jobs enable people who are blind or who are doing this vital work to gain independence and contribute to the nation’s economy as taxpayers. But the work that we’re doing is real, and it’s important and it’s vital, and it’s being done here in the United States. So we are employing Americans who are blind. We are supporting the American economy.

So, you know, when I think about the role that we play here at NIB and the AbilityOne Program, I think it’s right at the heart of the American economy and supporting our warfighter, our first responders. So, you know, with that, with that information, that backdrop, let’s go back to one thing that stood out to me in the survey, the survey results, which is why is there a little bit less support for the 1% set aside compared to the overall AbilityOne Program support? I think you touched on this a little bit about the skepticism, but I wanted to give you an opportunity to expand on that.

Brian Osborne: 25:09

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that difference is really in, comes down to the difference between ideas and and the practical policy proposals, right? When we’re talking about the AbilityOne Program, we’re, of course, there is going to be support for providing jobs for people who are blind or disabled. And the way in which we frame the question, it’s fairly broad, it’s fairly issue focused, and it’s not necessarily into the details of the specific policy.

So yeah, I think the real difference there is policy specifics will allow some of that skepticism to creep in, right? And for our purposes and our advocacy, that just means we need to be careful in how we talk to the American public,right? Let’s make sure we don’t burden them with too much policy talk, political jargon, in too many details that might build some of that skepticism. And let’s stay focused on the mission.

Soraya Correa: 26:19

Right. That makes a lot of sense. So, what are some of the biggest takeaways among the different groups of Americans? You know, when we think about the population that’s out there, what are some of the biggest takeaways?

Brian Osborne: 26:30

Yeah, when you look underneath the hood of this survey there’s a lot to like. And that goes back to this story that the support here is very broad. It’s not coming from one side or the other. Both sides support the AbilityOne Program. And to me I think this is the most important, one of the most important takeaways from this survey, is that that support is broad and bipartisan. We’re living in this day of high polarization. Yet the NIB can, in the same sentence, speak to dignity, purpose, and supporting a vulnerable population, and at the same time say what you just said, right? Exclaim that we’re creating jobs for American workers, building American products for American consumers right here. It’s an amazing opportunity to be able to be fully committed to our mission and speak the language of both sides of this polarized environment.

It’s an amazing opportunity.

Soraya Correa: 27:37

Yeah. No, I, I yeah, I was very impressed with the results. I, you know, again I wasn’t expecting such a high level of support, especially from, you know, both liberals and conservatives, because like you said, we’re in a time where every conversation is a little bit polarized, right?

One of the aspects of our program that I always like to talk about is the support for our nation’s veterans, because that’s an extremely important aspect of our work. It’s important not only for NIB, but also for the AbilityOne Program as a whole. And so I was pleased to see that that really resonated with the survey audience. Your thoughts?

Brian Osborne: 28:20

Yeah, that’s absolutely right. And when you go back to our attribute testing, our two highest scoring attributes were related to veterans and wounded warriors. And it makes sense, because Americans value their veterans. And this program has a unique ability to speak to that sentiment. And so, you know, look, I think Americans feel that we have a duty to support those who support those who have served, and the AbilityOne Program is doing that.

And so from, from an advocacy standpoint, you know, when we’re thinking about, how do we start to build some of those positive associations with the American public, finding those veteran stories to tell that are emotional and impactful and show results are going to be the best way for us to move the needle with the public.

Soraya Correa: 29:17

And I think that’s extremely important, and I’ve always advocated for telling our stories. In fact, when I go out and visit our nonprofit agencies and I, and I walk around to learn about, you know, their operations, I always stop and talk to the employees and ask them, you know, about why they’re there, why do they stay there as long as they do? You know, we have people out here that have worked for 40, 50, 30, 40, 50 years. We have people within NIB who have been here for well over 20, 25 years, and there’s a reason they stay. And a lot of it is about the support that we’re providing not only to our veterans. Some of them are veterans themselves, some of them are spouses of veterans. So I think it is important to tell those stories to let people know what life is really like for an individual who’s blind or visually impaired, and why these jobs are so meaningful for them.

We’re going to wrap up here, but I wanted to give you an opportunity. Was there any words of advice that you would give to us at NIB, or to anybody who’s conducting this kind of polling, this kind of survey?

Brian Osborne: 30:21

Yeah. I mean, I will go back to my one big key finding, and that, if you take nothing away from this conversation, it should be confidence to speak about NIB’s mission as far and wide as you can, and know that you’re going to be doing a lot of good in bringing people into our mission.

Soraya Correa: 30:44

Excellent. Well, Brian, first of all, thank you so much for working with us on this survey. Like I said, we were very impressed with the results and the care that was taken in framing the questions and looking at the data and presenting the data back to us. So thank you again so much for the work that you did on this survey. And thank you for joining me today and giving us a little bit of inside baseball on how you do these surveys.

It’s really good to learn and understand how to go about doing this.

Brian Osborne: 31:15

Thanks for having me.

Soraya Correa: 31:16

All right. So for more information on National Industries for the Blind and to learn about our important mission, visit nib.org. Join us again next time on Mission Driven.

Outro: 31:26

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