Brandi: You’re going to fail and try. You might not get everything the first time. The key is that you don’t give up and you don’t let it discourage you, because just like when one door closes there’s always another one that opens. And you might have found a billion and one ways to fail, keep tweaking it because you’re going to find one that works for you.

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by the National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: Welcome back to the Heard & Empowered podcast. And today I have the great pleasure of speaking with Brandi Hunter. Brandi has so much insight in the blindness world that she’s going to share with us today. Brandi, welcome to the show.

Brandi: Thank you, it’s a pleasure to be here.

Hoby: Well, it’s an absolute pleasure to have you. Thank you for taking the time to chat with us today. I’m really excited to know just all about you as a person. So before we get into your professional life, if you don’t mind just telling me a little bit about your background, who you are, anything about your upbringing, that sort of thing. I’d just love to hear who Brandi is.

Brandi: Okay, so I was born in a really tiny town outside of Charlotte in North Carolina. And I was born with a disease called Leber congenital amaurosis, which is basically where the optic nerve in the eye is a little too thin that processes what we see. A lot of people who are diagnosed with my particular disability are completely blind, but I was fortunate enough to have some vision.

My parents enrolled me in the Governor Morehead School when I was four.

Hoby: What is the Governor Morehead School?

Brandi: It is a school for the blind here in Raleigh. And so I went there, we left Sunday and we stayed there through Friday. So a lot of our classmates and dorm mates were kind of like family. And I went there until the end of my eighth grade year. I had a goal of kind of going to a public high school that a lot of my family had graduated from. And I was lucky enough to be able to do that with some fight. And that’s where I met my best friend, who I always refer to as my sister, and where I learned a lot about myself and came into myself as far as independence.

Once I finished school, I took a little break and I went and got my license for massage therapy. And then shortly after that, I had not planned to, but there was kind of an impromptu move to D.C. where I picked up three different jobs. And really, I had a lot of fun there. I worked for a charity that a lot of people have heard of that helps empower women. I also worked for Aflac and I worked putting samples together.

When my lease was up, I ended up moving back to Raleigh, where I took a job managing a cafe and I got pregnant with my first born little girl. And from there, my life has been a roller coaster. I now have two children and I work full-time here at BISM. And I just really believe in living my best life. I love to travel. I love to do all types of touristy things, as well as kind of experience the culture of the people around me. I have a love for life and living and making memories.

Hoby: I can hear it in your voice. It’s infectious. It makes me want to live life to the very fullest as well. No, I admire that immensely. I share that love of life and love of, you know, it doesn’t matter if we’re blind, we still get out there and we travel and we live the life that we want and just empower ourselves to do what we want to do.

We’re going to get into BISM and all about BISM in a second, but I just have a feeling and a sense that things are so much sweeter when we earn them ourselves. So by going to work and earning money and then taking that money and doing what you want with it is so much nicer than someone giving you, you know, inheritance or money for whatever, and then you use that money.

So it’s like we’re living the lives we want because we earn those lives, not because someone handed them to us.

Brandi: Absolutely. I mean, there’s nothing better than working hard, earning your money, going to Vegas, losing it and coming back and making more.

Hoby: Amen. I love it. I love it. And knowing… That’s beautiful what you just said. And knowing that we have a job waiting for us and that security so that we can make that money right back whenever we need to.

Tell me about BISM. What is BISM?

Brandi: Okay, so BISM actually stands for Blind Industries and Services of Maryland. And we do a little bit of everything here. We try to portray as one BISM, we want everybody to know, first and foremost, that we are a family, even though we all have different roles.

So here in Raleigh, where I’m based, our primary focus is textiles. Right now, we are producing jackets for our Army combat uniform jackets. The small parts are what we’re producing out of our plant, and we cut for them as well. And we’re doing the Army fitness uniform jacket and the Air Force track jacket.

And in doing those jackets, we have a lot of people on the floor who operate different types of sewing machines; single needles, double needles, automatic and different things like that. We also do pillows and tape borders. And we can do those for government orders, professional, commercial, personal.

Hoby: If we go back a little bit, BISM is basically an NIB associated nonprofit agency. And you guys, the work that you’re talking about now is manufacturing work of actual physical goods. But you also offer training for blind folks, right, to become independent and ultimately to take jobs on the manufacturing floor.

Brandi: That’s correct. We have an independent training and rehabilitation program, which we call ITR. And that’s based in our Maryland location. And what we do there is we teach students Braille, computers, assistive technology, how to cook, O&M, and how to travel. They have a job readiness class and we even do woodshop. You’re actually required, in order to graduate, to come up with a plan and build something, whether it’s a bookshelf or an entertainment center or a nightstand using tools to promote your own independence.

It’s really fantastic. And a lot of students do really fabulous from there. I have to admit, myself, that’s the most terrifying class for me.

Hoby: Right, right.

Brandi: I’m not trying to take off a finger.

Hoby: No, exactly. But it grows independence, you know, getting to use a power tool and build something useful. And that’s one thing about woodwork as well, is it doesn’t disappear. Unless you do something to it, it’s with you forever and it’s sort of a stamp of pride. Like, hey, I took the first step. I went to BISM, got training and here’s my bookshelf.

Brand: Even for me, when I did the tour in BISM in Baltimore, just watching students and seeing their finished product or things that they’ve created, that was empowering for me because I look at that and I’m like, I would be terrified.

Hoby: Right, right. And we just see people being empowered, it empowers us, but seeing them feel so empowered by what they’re doing and the fact that they’re being, not only told they can do things, but they’re encouraged to do things that a lot of people say are unsafe and maybe not what blind people should do, right?

Brandi: Absolutely.

Hoby: So let’s go back a little bit to the manufacturing side of things.

So you guys, a lot of the NIB associated nonprofit agencies have services they offer, contract management services and call centers. But a lot of them have manufacturing facilities where products and parts are made for the federal government and beyond. So you started to say that you have sewing floors, textile floors that produce parts of the Army fitness jacket and the Air Force jacket?

Brandi: We are actually here, right now we’re doing the fitness jacket from start to finish.

Hoby: Really?

Brandi: Absolutely. We send them out the door as a whole jacket.

Hoby: Wow. Wow, that’s awesome. And you mentioned tape orders, if you could expand on that a little bit.

Brandi: So we have a tape cutting machine where when you get electrical tape in, it’s like a very long roll. Like, let’s say if you stand it, I’m about 5’6”, if you stand it on the floor, it would maybe come up to a little above my waist. And they put these big rolls of tape on the machine and you have to measure it out and cut them. You bag them, you label them and you box them and ship them off.

So if the customer requests a specific size tape, like whether it’s half inch or quarter inch tape, the machine would have to measure it and cut it. You take it off the machine, bag it, label it, send it out. We do that as well, but we also have a lot of other things that we do.

We have our Base Supply Centers (BSC), which are located on military bases. And they are basically like a little store. We might have office supplies or different supplies where people can come in, they can place your orders and we have people who take orders, fulfill those orders. We even have people who deliver them to people on base.

Hoby: Wow. You run the Base Supply Center.

Brandi: Yes. Yes, BISM, as a whole we run the Base Supply Center. We’re responsible for the staffing and everything that comes out of it.

Hoby: That’s incredible. I love that. So you basically, as an organization, provide goods and services to folks living on military bases so that they can live and prosper in their lives.

Brandi: That’s correct.

Hoby: Wow. Wow. So a lot of amazing training services, including woodshop, textiles, tape and literally running Base Supply Centers.

Brandi: Absolutely.

Hoby: And in those Base Supply Centers, you might sell products that are made by other NIB associated nonprofit agencies, right?

Brandi: That’s correct.

Hoby: Okay, tell me your story, if you don’t mind, at BISM, what do you do and how do you arrive in that position?

Brandi: So as I mentioned earlier, when I first moved to Raleigh, I had a job as a manager, an assistant manager at a cafe when I found out I was pregnant with my daughter. And when I was about seven months pregnant with her, the cafe had to close unexpectedly and I ended up having to find a job.

Hoby: Okay.

Brandi: Follow me here, this next one gets a little bit interesting. So my friend told me that they had an open house at BISM. Little did I know that this was an invitation-only open house. And I found out in the last couple of minutes. So I threw my clothes on, eight-month pregnant me can barely fit into my clothes.

And I hop in the Uber and I have nothing prepared. And I just so happened to find a really nice lady who was assisting someone else who had attended the job fair. She really helped me put my application together really quickly. And I enjoyed the tour. Back at the time, Mr. Maurice Peret was actually giving the tour. And I was not expecting to be called in, but they said maybe May or June before they would call someone in. And it was the next week that I received a phone call and an offer letter.

And I started in December of 2017 as a sewing machine operator on the sewing floor. And then I had my daughter in January of 2018. And after six weeks I came back to work on the sewing floor where I stayed for almost four years, actually. And the company opened up a position up front, it’s sort of like a receptionist area, but I’ve always excelled in administrative tasks.

So I placed what we call a bid on the position, which is like a paper where you list your qualifications, why they should choose you, and your supervisor fills out a part at the bottom. You know, do they recommend? Do they have any reservations about it? And I was shocked to find out that I got the job.

I didn’t realize that I was going to be inducted as part of the HR team at that time, but I actually was. And it’s actually really become my passion. It’s a very personal thing to me. My father, when I was little, he passed back in 2021. I was a daddy’s girl. He told me that I would be in the HR field one day. Like he could see me working in the office and that I was a people person.

And so in November, he passed in June, and in November I had received a promotion. So I took it. I was very gracious. I was grateful. And I just took it and ran with it. It’s something I wanted to do. And a little while after I received my position, first, I started kind of following my supervisor’s lead. And as I kind of became a little more comfortable, I would step out, branch out and try new tasks. I was always the person to be “give me more tasks. I want to learn.” I’m that person.

Hoby: Totally, me too.

Brandi: I’m the, “What does this button do? There’s only one way to find out.”

Hoby: Exactly. Exactly right.

Brandi: So in, I want to say it had to be like November. I received an email from my boss asking me to sign up for this class from NIB, which was a sourcing and recruiting class.

Hoby: And was that, by the way, we’ve done an interview with the executive director of NSITE. Was that class offered through NSITE?

Brandi: It was.

Hoby: Okay, there it is.

Brandi: Ms. Marianne Haegeli, I spoke with her. She’s fantastic and so are all of the instructors and staff members. And they were super helpful. So I signed up, myself and one other person from BISM who worked in the HR team as well, who was visually impaired. And we ended up taking the class together. And I graduated in February of this year from that course, and in April they put up a position posting for an HR staffing coordinator. And I applied. I put the bid in and I received the promotion. And I started a year and a half to the day after I got my promotion to HR.

Hoby: I love that. So you started working on the manufacturing floor, ended up moving up to the front office, which was something you were passionate about, that your dad said, I just see you in this role one day. You were able to work with people. And then you had this opportunity through NSITE to learn about recruiting. And because of that class and because of what you learned there from NIB, you were able to take the recruiting position as a staffing coordinator.

Brandi: Absolutely. That’s how it happened.

Hoby: I love that. I love that so much.

Brandi: And I’m not done moving yet.

Hoby: No, I know. I can tell you are a go-getter like the best of anyone. So I love that.

Let’s talk a little bit about HR, because it’s one of these fields that I think is such a powerful part of a company and of the way that people maybe approach work. Because you are literally able to find talent and nurture that talent into the position that you think will best fit them, whether it be an open position or something that might come along down the pipe later. But humor me just for a minute and tell me what you love about being in the work of human relations and people.

Brandi: It’s the people. It really is, honestly. Everybody is different, but I feel like once you talk to someone, if you know how to talk to someone, you can kind of gauge their skill set, the things they like very quickly in a conversation. And if you can do that and you can kind of get to know someone through talking to them, you can kind of figure out their strengths and weaknesses and find a place where they’re suited.

But everybody has a story. Everybody has strengths and they also have their weaknesses. And I really, I just love talking to people. And I’ve always been able to kind of figure out where they might fit. And my dad always told me you can feed someone and just, you know, you can give them a meal or you can teach them how to fish and feed them for a lifetime. And I love helping people.

So I think that the way I can give back is helping these people who need employment or who maybe don’t exactly know what direction they’re going, to try to find a job or find some sort of gainful employment to put food on their tables and feed their families, or for whatever reason that they may need this extra income. Or even if it’s just a reason to get out of the house and kind of meet people or network.

It’s really the people, that’s what I love most about my job.

Hoby: I love it. You are such a people person and such a positive beacon of energy, and I just appreciate that. What you were describing made me think a lot about mentorship. In a way, you mentor the people that you talk to into the positions that you think they would be best suited for. Is that true?

Brandi: I don’t know if I would call it mentoring. In my mind’s eye, I definitely see places where people, positions where people may be a good fit. But I think what I want them to do is to find their own voice and to come into it in their own way. I feel like I gently suggest, well, you might be qualified for this position.

And I always tell people if they feel nervous or they have questions or concerns, or if I’m not finding them a good fit, they can come to me and I’ll do my best to try to make it right. I don’t feel like I mentor, I just feel like I try to inspire people to go for what they really want.

Hoby: I love that description. I guess what I mean by mentoring is sometimes I feel like you maybe see a career and an opportunity for someone before they see it for themselves. And you can help sort of steer them and guide them to what you think they’ll be good at.

Brandi: Absolutely, that’s pretty accurate.

Hoby: I love that. And being able to really see where people’s strengths are, how they will excel. And also keeping that door open and telling people, hey, if you don’t like where you end up, come back to me and we’ll talk. I love that. I appreciate that positivity so much.

Brandi: Every time I fill a position, especially a lower-level position because I don’t think anybody really wants to start from the bottom, my key advice to them is it’s only temporary. Don’t lose your drive. Don’t lose your focus.

Even for me, and I always say this, I started at the very bottom and I’ve managed to work my way up. It might take time. Don’t become complacent, don’t get stagnant. And anytime something comes open, come talk to me. Any time you feel like you would be good in a different field, come check in with me. Let’s see what we have. Let’s sit down. Let’s talk about it. Let’s see what we can do for you.

Hoby: And let’s keep that momentum going.

Brandi: I want to see everyone reach their best potential.

Hoby: Yeah, I love it. And there’s something that’s so true about being blind people in a sighted world, isn’t it, that patience is such an important attribute to have. And if we’re patient and we just let things take the time that they need to take, our patience is pretty much always rewarded.

Brandi: Absolutely. But one thing that I feel like a lot of blind people find discouraging, and unfortunately it’s true, is that as a blind person, if we want to apply ourselves and really be noticed, I feel like we have to come with our A-game. Like we have to work twice as hard because it’s so easy for someone to judge you because you have a cane in your hand or because you can’t make eye contact with them or you can’t read an application. But you still have so much to offer.

You really have to come with your A-game, your best energy. You have to really choose your words and your actions very carefully.

Hoby: That couldn’t be more well said. I think it’s true for me as a blind chemist, in order to do anything, I had to really push myself and work as hard as I could, and I had to always be above average. And I think that’s the case for blind folks in general wanting to, I don’t like to use the word compete but I think it’s appropriate here, to compete on a level playing field in a sighted world. We have to not only be as good as, but we have to be better than the competition in so many ways.

Brandi: Absolutely. It’s true. It’s true. You have to work twice as hard. You have to almost appear flawless. And I hate to say it, but that’s the way that it works. You cannot show any chinks in your armor. And in terms of confidence, it really is a competition, but you have the tools to win it. You just have to, I always say this, “Fake it until you make it.”

Hoby: It’s true.

Brandi: Even if you don’t feel confident, go in there, smile, hold your head up high and do your best.

Hoby: Put your A-game on. And that’s what agencies like BISM do so well, you guys give people the opportunity who maybe come to you looking for a job. But before they get a job, they might need to learn to cook. They might need to learn how to be literate in Braille, learn how to use a computer, how to travel, all these things. And you meet them at their level, don’t you?

Brandi: Oh yeah, absolutely. I feel like I, myself, I try to kind of understand and feel out the person I’m talking to or anyone in general. And when I talk to them, I really try to empower them because I did not always have this confidence. I used to be very shy, very introverted. It’s very hard to believe now, but it was who I was. And it took a lot of time to come out of that. It took a lot of failure and a lot of success, too.

You’re going to fail and try. You might not get everything the first time. The key is that you don’t give up and you don’t let it discourage you, because just like when one door closes, there’s always another one that opens. And you might have found a million and one ways to fail. Keep tweaking it because you’re going to find one that works for you.

Hoby: It’s so true and so powerful what you’re saying here, because if we don’t make mistakes, we won’t learn anything. And I think that’s one of the unfortunate circumstances of being blind in a world where expectations are a little bit lower, is that society around us doesn’t necessarily expect us to be able to perform and they don’t have high expectations is what I’m trying to say. So they make it easy for us, right?

And life isn’t easy. So if we want to be successful, we have to not be so protected that we can’t fall down and get back up and realize what we did to fall down and not do it again.

Brandi: Life is like business in a sense.

Hoby: It is.

Brandi: You have to take risks and you don’t always know the outcome.

Hoby: It is.

Brandi: But if you never take those risks, you never experience life. Even sighted people fail. They might be better at hiding it, but sighted people, they fall down. They struggle too.

Hoby: They do. And some of them don’t get back up and they have the same results as what happens to us when we don’t get back up, we don’t continue learning. If you give up, that’s sort of the end, right? And I never want the end to come. I want to keep learning. I want to keep growing.

What advice, Brandi, would you give, say, a blind person who’s thinking about getting out there and getting the skills they need and maybe even going to work, either in a manufacturing floor or in services for one of the agencies that we champion? What would you tell them? Maybe they’re scared of going out and getting out on a limb and sticking their neck out and doing that. What would you tell them?

Brandi: I would say ease yourself into it, right? Like go over your resume, have some friends go over your resume, role play with your friends, whatever. Whether it be an interview call, there are groups out there for blind people or blind job seekers or anything in general. Float your ideas past people, but don’t take too long. The thing is, when it’s time to do it, even if you don’t feel that confidence or that bravado, take a deep breath, put your best foot forward and show.

I had been discriminated against and it wasn’t fun. I actually still managed to work for the company. And I feel like this story is very important. I went to the job interview, and it was in Virginia. I lived in the D.C., Maryland, Virginia area. I made it there on time. I spoke. I got the job, I did great. And I wondered why they weren’t putting me on the schedule. And I called my supervisor and my supervisor told me that I was blind and it was because I was a liability.

Don’t let it discourage you. I then started looking through my contacts. I started calling anybody I could think of who might have some ideas as to where to go from here. I got a hold of the NFB and then I spoke, ironically enough, to the human resources lady for the corporate for that location, or for that company.

Hoby: Wow. For NFB?

Brandi: I spoke to NFB. I did speak to NFB as well.

Hoby: I see where you’re going, yes.

Brandi: Yeah, I spoke to the HR of the company that I was working for, and to make it right, I mean, she ended up paying me for the time missed. But I was on the schedule for the next weekend. And understand that there are going to be workarounds for everything, but you can find those. No matter what happens, smile, hold your head up, be your best you. Even if you go home and fall apart for the first few weeks, it’s going to get easier.

Hoby: Yes, it’s going to get easier. It’s going to become fun. I mean, and that’s one thing that I find so awesome about agencies like BISM, is when you’re blind, you’re not a liability and you’re not just accommodated. We say this a lot on this podcast, you’re literally celebrated for the skills that you bring, personally, to the team.

Brandi: But I do want to say, don’t limit yourself. Whatever you do, don’t limit yourself. If you see an opportunity that you feel like you’re qualified for, that you feel like you would be good at, apply for it. Always apply.

Hoby: Jump on it. Take it.

Brandi: The worst thing they can do is tell you no. And if they tell you no, take a minute, dust yourself off, do it again. Someone is going to see your potential.

Hoby: I love it. I love it. Life should be lived limitless.

Brandi: Someone is going to see your potential. But if you quit, if you give up, no one, no one will. Use that as your motivation. Stand up. Try. Talk to people in your community that you know who have been successful. See what they would call their secrets to success. Watch the people around you, pay attention to how they handle things. My dad always said, you learn more from watching than you do from talking. Take all that information and just think it over. Think of everything, just analyze it. Figure out how you can make it work for you.

Hoby: That is brilliant, you learn more from watching than talking. I totally agree. Well, Brandi, we’re coming close to the end of our interview and I just have – It’s been such a joy talking to you. There are so many nuggets of advice here and so much positivity about not giving up, moving forward, holding your head high and just being the best person you can possibly be, blind or sighted.

Is there anything else that you want our listeners to know before we end this interview? And then I have one more final question for you.

Brandi: I don’t really know. I don’t really see myself as a motivational speaker as much as like, you know, just go for it. I have a job that I like. I still plan to move upward, onward and upward. Stagnant is not my thing.

But you can do it. Like, for example, I handle interviews. I handle staffing. I handle offer and promotion letters. You have the same power, everybody has the same power to do that too. Whether it’s what you do, Hoby, being a chemist, or even if production is what you like. Even if working on a sewing machine is what you like and you just want to learn a new machine.

Success isn’t a dollar amount. It’s about being happy and comfortable in your life and what you do.

Hoby: I love that so much. That is so powerful. Be happy and be productive in what you love. What advice would you give an employer who is sighted, who is thinking about taking on a blind workforce but is sort of unsure about it and has some questions? What advice would you give them to just move forward and do it?

Brandi: Definitely move forward and do it. But if you have questions, call someone. Call someone in your network. I mean, for example, if you wanted to apply for BISM, call me. I mean, we can talk about what each job entails. We have people who are blind and sighted on all levels. Blind people in HR, in accounting, in management, on the sewing floor, running our BSCs. Call me, talk to me. We can talk about what it entails and what you would need.

And we offer training. The one thing you have to remember is you’re never going to go in anywhere 100% ready, blind or sighted.

Hoby: And you don’t do it alone. You’ve got a team there who’s there to support you and help you every step of the way, and you will add to that team and help others.

Brandi: Absolutely. It’s all about passing it on. You have a support system, utilize that. Utilize your support system. If you have questions, ask. If you need tips, ask. There’s always someone out there who can give you some sort of answer, you just have to find it. You keep asking until someone can direct you to the right person.

Hoby: Brandi, this has been so much fun chatting with you. Thank you so much for your time today. And if folks want to reach out to you, do you mind if we include your email address in the show notes? Because I know a lot of people are going to be inspired and want to get in touch with you.

Brandi: Absolutely, feel free. My LinkedIn should be listed as well as my email address.

Hoby: Perfect, we’ll make sure they’re both listed. And really a joy to talk to you. Thank you for your wonderful words of encouragement and beautiful story.

Brandi: I’m really honored that you guys chose to speak with me today and I really enjoyed myself. Thank you so much.

Hoby: The feeling is mutual. Thanks, Brandi.

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