Kevin: That concern that individuals have, “Oh, really? Can a blind person really do that and meet the quality or meet the expectations of the customer?” And I can tell you, “Yes.” But until you see it, really, I think is the thing that changes your mind.

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: Hello and welcome back to the Heard & Empowered podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Hoby Wedler. I want to start out by thanking all of our amazing listener base so much for loving our show, liking our show, sharing it with anyone who you think it can make a difference. If you know anybody who is losing their eyesight and wants to get out there in the workforce and get the training they need, if you personally are in that situation, or if you’re just curious about amazing employment opportunities for the blind and visually impaired community offered by NIB, you have come to the right place, the Heard & Empowered podcast.

Please continue to like the episodes that you hear. If you haven’t done so, and you think we’re so deserving, please, please give us a five-star review. And if you can write a comment with that review, just one word will do, that is so much appreciated and will help us bring awareness to the amazing work done by America’s blind and visually impaired community and the amazing work done by National Industries for the Blind.

And to celebrate the spirit of NIB, I have the distinct pleasure and great honor of welcoming to the studio today, Kevin Lynch, who is as of just this week, president emeritus of NIB. Kevin, welcome to the podcast.

Kevin: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.

Hoby: We’re beyond honored to have this opportunity to chat with you and let our listeners just get to know the amazing person you are, your dreams, your aspirations, and how you saw them to fruition at NIB.

So Kevin, I’d like to get to know the person behind the mission. So can you tell me a little bit about you growing up and sort of where you grew up and, you know, how you found yourself with a passion to help other people?

Kevin: Certainly. Well, I was born and raised in upstate New York. In Rochester, New York, actually. And had the typical, you know, growing up back in the 60s and 70s experience. And one of the things that I realized when I was in high school is that I really liked working with my hands. And so when it came time to go to college, I went to the State University of New York in Oswego and became an industrial arts teacher. I was supposed to be a woodshop teacher or auto shop teacher.

Hoby: Wow.

Kevin: And when I did graduate after doing my student teaching, I thought, okay, here’s an opportunity, do I go into teaching? Do I go into industry? And I was looking for a job and answered a small little ad in the local newspaper for a job working at the Association for the Blind in Rochester at the time. And I was fortunate enough to be hired to be a floor supervisor. So it was a very interesting experience.

Hoby: On a manufacturing floor?

Kevin: On a manufacturing floor.

Hoby: And utilizing your industrial arts knowledge of materials and how to put things together, and I can totally see the connection.

Kevin: It was a great experience. Now I will tell you, Hoby, I had not had the fortune of ever really being around a person who was blind or visually impaired before this. And so just brand new out of college I had the opportunity to work in a department that had 30 individuals who were blind and visually impaired. And I really think that was the experience that set it all off.

Hoby: You hadn’t had the opportunity, necessarily, to work with someone who was blind or visually impaired when you started at the Rochester Association for the Blind.

Kevin: So, I had the opportunity then to work with 30 individuals who were blind and visually impaired. The experience that I had in terms of it was, very, very, I guess, overwhelming to me initially, because you go in with the assumption that a person who is blind has limited capabilities. And I can tell you that after about two weeks, that idea was completely out the window.

Hoby: Right, right. You saw what was possible.

Kevin: Incredibly possible. It was just really, it was an experience that was somewhat comical in the sense that going in there I didn’t, you know, I really did not have any training. And so there was, again, the assumption that I had to be careful with my words, like did you see what was on television last night? Did you watch the sports game? And they quickly dismissed all of that with me and said, “Treat us like anyone.” And that was probably the most valuable lesson I got out of my 40 plus years.

Hoby: It’s amazing. I love it. And you had that, you know, I think a lot of times for folks who are especially recent to, you know, new to vision loss, they have their pivotal moments too where it’s like, okay, I’m with a group of blind people and I realized that this is possible. I can do whatever I want to do. And it’s so fun to hear that from that same pivotal moment from you as someone who was new to the blind and visually impaired community, who had sort of the opposite, but also the same a-ha moment of, wow, I did not even realize what was possible.

Kevin: It’s truly amazing what we were working on projects for, at that time Eastman Kodak and Xerox Corporation, and we were doing some pretty, at that time, high tech work for them. We were actually making parts for their copying machines and for some of their photographic equipment and medical devices. So to have an individual, again, who kind of came in from the for-profit world, like a company like Kodak and actually see an individual who’s totally blind navigating around and being able to produce these very high-tech parts –

Hoby: It’s just incredible.

Kevin: Yeah, it was an experience for them.

Hoby: So let’s go a little bit further into your journey. So you worked at the Rochester Association for the Blind. How long were you there?

Kevin: I was there for 13 years.

Hoby: Okay. And worked your way into, I’m sure, a variety of positions over that tenure, you know, starting as floor manager. And then did you work your way up to the executive leadership team or what was sort of your trajectory there?

Kevin: Yeah, so I went on to become the director of manufacturing for the operation. And one of the things that we did prior to my moving on was, which is something that, again, was a very interesting experience, was the opportunity for us to bring in the 3M Post-it Note project.

Hoby: Oh wow.

Kevin: And produce all of the Post-it Notes for the federal government. And again, working with a company like 3M, it took a lot of time to convince them. Particularly at that time, the Post-it Notes were their golden egg as a project. And so one of the things that we were able to do is convince them that we could maintain the quality and the integrity. And 30 years after that, they’re still producing Post-it Notes and actually have increased the number of types of products of Post-it Notes that they’re producing today.

But the better experience of this, and this is what I think is so important in terms of getting the message out about the capabilities of people who are blind, is that today that one project, that Post-it Note project has led to over 30 different projects with 3M Corporation, you know, into their medical, into their abrasive. So it was something that convinced the corporation that there’s a value in terms of working with us.

Hoby: You know, blind people, when it comes to the workforce, I like to say are the best kept secret. And it just takes one time to convince someone you got to trust this group of people, you got to trust what we’re doing here. And in the for-profit world, you and I know this very, very well. In the for-profit world people do things because they make financial sense, and they make sense for the bottom line. And the feel good, you know, the mission is an added bonus. But 3M would not have over 30 projects with NIB associated nonprofit agencies if the work they saw in that Post-it Note project at the beginning wasn’t absolutely excellent. So it’s a testament. It’s a testament to what people can do.

Kevin: Absolutely. And like you said, I happen to agree with you, I think that the workforce that we have in the program today is one of the best kept secrets in America, and we need to change that. That needs to be spread out and it needs to be understood that if you want a dedicated, skilled workforce, you really need to check out the workforce that we have. Because one of the things that we all strive to do is to create not only an opportunity for a person to have a job, but really to create an opportunity for people to have a career, a career path.

Hoby: Well, and be able to have the money to do what they want to do with their lives.

Kevin: Exactly.

Hoby: So powerful.

Kevin: They want the same things that anyone wants. And again, I think one of the things about the program that we have, and then one of the reasons why that I was just fascinated, and continue to be fascinated, is always taking a look at how we can raise the bar. And how can we, I guess, increase the types of choices and options that are out there so that individuals can accomplish everything that they would like to obtain or can obtain.

Hoby: And, you know, so much of that comes with not only raising the bar of giving people opportunities, but within the blind folks themselves raising expectations, social and otherwise, of what they can do and who they can become. And that’s what I think our agencies do an absolutely incredible job of doing too, is saying, hey, if you’re going to be out here making your own money, you need to learn how to cook your own dinner. You need to learn how to get to work.

So we can take people in at any point of the journey to independence and gainful employment, and not only raise the bar of what opportunities we can offer these folks, but keep the bar high on what these amazing people can do in their lives. It’s so important. And we’re going to get into that in, in much more detail in a few minutes when we talk about your dream and development of NSITE.

But before we go there, I just have a random question for you, being an industrial arts major and loving to work with your hands and this sort of thing, I hope you’ve maintained those skills in your personal life and still do woodwork and that sort of thing. Is that one of your hobbies?

Kevin: Oh, absolutely. And actually I’m looking forward to reigniting that thrill that I have in terms of working as I go into my retirement.

Hoby: Do you have a little workshop at home?

Kevin: I do, yes.

Hoby: I love that. I love that. So now you can reignite that passion, that spark. And boy, one of the things that you just reminded me of, what’s incredible to me are some of the crafts people I know who happen to be blind or visually impaired. I know an amazing, a couple of amazing wood turners, an amazing potter. And you just think about even something as seemingly visual as carving a piece of square wood into a beautiful round piece of wood on a very fast moving instrument like a lathe, people think you need eyesight for it, but you don’t.

We actually did a fun course, I don’t usually go into asides like this, but I just want to tell you about something because I think it might make you happy. I am an amateur woodturner myself and met up with a really incredible master woodturner who was teaching at a Waldorf level high school. And he said, “You know, we really need a way to raise the stakes for our high school students.” This was in the upperclassmen, mostly juniors that we worked with.

And he and I built a program where sighted high school students would put on a blindfold and work with one of their colleagues, one of their classmates who was sighted, who filled the assistant role. And these students with no eyesight at all would cut, would rip large pieces of wood down on a bandsaw, a little scary, but we taught them how to do it successfully. And then mount them to a lathe and turn out these beautiful products.

So even someone who is sighted, but is temporarily blindfolded and their vision is removed, it’s amazing the empathy that this taught them and the character building that this taught them of just working with someone to learn how to do something temporarily without sight. And it just goes to show what the possibilities are when folks live and breathe blindness every day. The sky’s the limit.

Kevin: Oh, you’re absolutely right. And it’s just getting over that initial fear factor, or the unfortunate maybe stereotype that you have in terms of what limits you.

Hoby: So true. And you know, the biggest thing that blocks us and the biggest thing that drives us to our greatest dreams is our brain. You know, our brain tells us what we can and can’t do. And if we open our minds up, like you have done, and just move your way from one point to the next, to the next, and look at where you are now, it’s a testament to what we can do if we put our mind to something that we care about.

Tell me a little bit, so you went on from the Rochester Association, where did you go next in the world of blindness and employing blind folks?

Kevin: So after leaving Rochester, I actually moved down to Georgia and took over what was a state run agency for employing people who were blind. And we had three plants that were located across the state and had roughly about 300 individuals who were blind in those three locations.

Hoby: And you saw an opportunity where the state was running it and you saw that there could be improvements made and I’m sure you went in and helped them make those improvements.

Kevin: One of the things that, as you can imagine, is it’s a little bit difficult for a state agency to operate like a business with all of their different rules. And you understand that in terms of even things like procurement is a challenge. But I had a really great set of people that were really wanting to see the program improve. And so they did give the opportunity for us to really introduce some more business-like procedures and policies that also gave the opportunity for individuals who were blind who hadn’t had the chance before then to take on the roles of supervisor and manager.

So it was really trying to work through all of the, again, the state employment policies and regulations. But at the same time trying to get them to understand, they being the state legislators and policy makers, to understand that we were kind of an unusual state agency.

Hoby: Sure. And again, empowering blind people to work in all aspects of the business from the manufacturing floor all the way up to leadership positions.

Kevin: Yeah. And that’s been something that, really, from my days in Rochester all the way up until today, I think is again, trying to figure out ways that individuals who are blind have choice and options that are available to them. Whether it be through training, whether it be through working with them on career placements, that’s really important and key so that individuals can accomplish, like I said, and obtain their highest level of their desire.

Hoby: Amazing. That’s what it’s all about.

So Kevin, you went from Rochester to Georgia, and then tell me how you found out about NIB and got excited about coming on board. And where did you start at the national organization?

Kevin: So, obviously, working in both Rochester and Georgia, we had contracts that we worked through National Industries for the Blind, so I was very familiar with NIB. The opportunity that came up was that the person who came in to be the president and CEO was my former CEO at Rochester. And she wanted the opportunity to bring in somebody who had experience working at the agencies so that we could relate better with the associated agencies connected with NIB.

Hoby: And this was in what year that you transitioned to NIB?

Kevin: 1994.

Hoby: Incredible, incredible legacy there. So tell me where you started at NIB.

Kevin: So I came in as the vice president of operations, worked with our associated agencies in ensuring that all the contracts that were under the AbilityOne program were being performed as they are required, meeting specifications and the quality levels.

Hoby: Amazing. Yeah, and really making sure that those jobs are available and that the work that’s being done is absolutely top notch. Yeah. I’m sure you moved around a little bit at NIB, when did you officially take on the role of president and CEO?

Kevin: I took that on in August of 2008.

Hoby: Okay. So you’ve been in that role for 16 years.

Kevin: Yes.

Hoby: I love that. And in 16 years, there’s a lot of difference that can be made. And you are absolutely a leader, someone who has made such a positive and tremendous difference within NIB and within the whole network of agencies that are served by NIB and supported by NIB. It’s just incredible, and ultimately for employment for those of us who are blind and visually impaired overall.

And I want to focus on three milestones, that I think of as milestones, that when you hear the name Kevin Lynch, these are things that immediately come to mind because they’re your brain children and they’ve just done so much for success. I want to start out by talking about the AbilityOne program as it’s tied in with base supply centers on military bases, otherwise known as BSCs.

So you will hear an episode eventually with Marybeth Clare, who was one of our two employees of the year at the recent October 2023 NIB conference and expo. And she works as a lead cashier for one of the base supply centers. And just hearing her passion for what she does and her excitement for what she does is just infectious. I want to hear from you about what happened in your leadership, in your tenure with the base supply centers and how you were able to bring them over to be run essentially by the associated nonprofit agencies.

Kevin: So that’s a very interesting story, and it actually started back in 1995. So I had just come on board with NIB. And what had been happening was the military branches were making the determination that their business was to be ready to go to war. And that all of the supporting functions that they have that were not directly linked to that was something that they would no longer do. Actually, the branches would actually man and own the inventory with service personnel. So they decided to close all of those stores.

Hoby: So the branch, let me just make sure I understand. The branch, the military base itself would own the inventory and run the store?

Kevin: That’s correct.

Hoby: Got it.

Kevin: That’s correct. So when they decided to do that, that was actually a real concern for us in our program because what we were concerned about, the service personnel when those stores were operating could come in and they would be able to purchase the products that were made by people who were blind. Now with those stores closed and no inventory there, base personnel would have to go into town and purchase their supplies and they would not be able to then find the blind made products.

So one of the things that fortunately happened is the military found out that wasn’t working very well, particularly during deployments and during times when there were natural disasters that the military were called in. So we were actually working with them at Fort Bragg. And the person at Fort Bragg at the time, I believe was a colonel, said that he had a recurring nightmare about having his base personnel go into town with one of their Humvees and hit a school bus.

And that was something that kept him up at night. And so he asked if it would be possible for us to come in and open up a store, which as it turned out today is one of the best opportunities that we had that just kind of fell into place. And we were successful in meeting the requirements that word got out and today we run over 150 base stores.

Hoby: Wow. And when you were asked to run the first base store in Fort Bragg, was that an ask of NIB or an associated nonprofit near Fort Bragg?

Kevin: So they actually asked NIB. They came to NIB with the idea. We had a little bit, because it was so different than what our agencies were familiar with, there was a little bit of hesitation. It was also a significant investment that had to be made. I think the initial inventory was $1 million that an agency was going to have to come up with.

And at the same time, one of the other requirements was for us to come in and clean up these stores because the military didn’t really keep the update of the maintenance of the facilities. So while they allowed us to utilize the facilities, they wanted them to be updated. So there was also a cost associated to bring them up to the standards of what you would find in any retail store.

Hoby: Right. Right. No, that’s just incredible. And the men and women that run the base stores who are blind just do such a good job and take such great pride in the work that they do. I mean, just talking to Marybeth about her guide dog and there’s another guide dog that’s in the store and the people serving the armed forces come in to buy what they need and get some playtime with dogs. And it’s just a, it’s a great environment. People love it and everybody finds it an amazing win-win. And so congratulations on that and wonderful how that started just one year into your tenure with NIB. I love it. And you were able to spearhead that and see it across the finish line.

Kevin: And see it actually grow today into additional services that we now provide at these military locations, such as their hazmat, also particularly for the air force having the specialty products that they need for their missions. So a lot of the apparel, a lot of the equipment is something else that is associated with the base stores, but it’s a separate project. Separate contract, which opened up new opportunities because it takes different skill sets than what the personnel at the base store have.

So, again, it’s just, it’s been one of those situations, as I mentioned earlier with 3M that once you break down the barriers of what people think people who are blind can’t do, opens up incredible doors.

Hoby: It’s amazing. Yeah. I want to chat about another program. We’ve talked with specialists from a variety of agencies now, a number of folks who work in contract management services. And I think historically the AbilityOne program and the NIB-provided services and products, really, sort of people think about products, parts, MREs, you know, meals ready to eat and the components that fit into those, airplane parts, but manufactured goods. And I don’t think people think about the amazing services that are offered as much as they could.

And I know that another one of the programs that you built was Contract Management Services and essentially maintaining contracts and making sure that the federal government earns the money associated with those contracts. Can you give us a story, if you don’t mind, just about the opportunity that you saw there and how you saw that through to fruition in a business sense and why it made good business sense.

Kevin: So one of the things that, again, I think that is kind of a roadmap in terms of some of the things that I’ve been fortunate enough to be able to work on, is that I happened to be out meeting with the Navy in San Diego. And was meeting, basically it was an introductory meeting with the captain of the fleet industrial supply because those are the activities that buy a lot of our products, as you mentioned.

When I was walking out of that meeting, I happened to be with the person who was head of contracting. And I had the opportunity just to ask her as we were walking out, you know, what are your headaches? What problems really are a headache or bothersome to you? And she brought up the fact that particularly towards year end, fiscal year end, there was always a problem in terms of having contracts closed out and never having enough personnel available to do that. Basically it was just something that was just very, very difficult and painful for them.

Hoby: And what happens by the way, maybe you can enlighten me and our listeners, what happens when a contract isn’t closed out?

Kevin: So the interesting thing about contract closeout is that when the government or the military actually places an order for supplies, they may only end up getting 60%, 80% of what they ordered for whatever reason. There’s the accountability in terms of that contract where that 40 or 20% that had not been delivered, that money is still tied up on that contract until somebody comes in and says, nope, you can now deobligate that 20% back to the treasury because we only got 80% of what we ordered.

Hoby: Right, so now that money is essentially spendable in the unrestricted budget.

Kevin: That’s correct.

Hoby: So you heard from just in passing, I love meetings in the hallway, they’re the best kind of meeting. You heard that this was a big problem. And your reaction to that was?

Kevin: So when I came back to the DC area, the idea was, okay, how do we go about, what are the requirements for someone to be able to close out a contract? And that was a real educational moment for me because it’s more challenging than you would think. First of all, it requires an individual that has a four year degree, preferably in business. But then it also requires an individual to be able to go through all the courses that a federal contracting officer would have to go through and qualify on.

So one of the things that we were able to do is reach out to Defense Acquisition University, which actually trains federal employees to become contracting officers. And we’re able to work with them where they agreed that individuals who are blind, who had four year degrees could go through at no cost, be able to complete the courses that were required for them to go on to be qualified to be a contract closeout person.

Hoby: This is incredible. This is absolutely incredible. So now anyone who wants to do this or who gets hired to do this job at one of the nonprofit agencies goes through this university training and becomes a contract closeout specialist.

Kevin: And the even more exciting part about that is that we’ve had over a hundred individuals who’ve gone through that, who worked on the AbilityOne contracts doing the closeout, who have since been hired by the military or by defense prime contractors who recognize and realize that these individuals are very well qualified to be contract officers.

Hoby: That’s incredible. How much money does our network of agencies save the government every year or bring back to the treasury every year? Do we have a number on that?

Kevin: Well, I can tell you since we’ve been doing it, which is I think going on now about 12 years, we’ve deobligated over $3 billion back to the treasury.

Hoby: Wow! That’s incredible. And that money just sort of goes unnoticed and goes by the wayside if it isn’t deobligated. That’s amazing work. And it’s meaningful. This is the thing, all these things that we’re talking about so far, the base supply centers, contract management, this stuff is helping all of us. I love it.

Kevin: It’s very positive things. Very positive.

Hoby: I love it. And you should be, as you look back at your career, Kevin, you should be so proud of this. One that I really want to talk about, we’ve interviewed Jonathan Lucas, Dr. Jonathan Lucas on this podcast. His episode came out, I believe it was episode number two, so at the very, very beginning. It was a shorter interview. He told us a little bit about what NSITE does.

And NSITE is a program that essentially offers a job board. So it shows the community of hiring managers that we have blind individuals who are looking for work, this is what they’re good at, and helps people go beyond AbilityOne and get job placement outside the nonprofit agencies in corporate America. I think this is one of the most impressive programs.

And by the way, my policy is I don’t work with anyone that I don’t believe in what they do. And this is one of the things that just immediately when I started having conversations with NIB that sold the mission to me, was the fact that we had a group like NSITE. And I know that was your brainchild. I’ve heard through the grapevine that that was a Kevin Lynch brainchild. And I’m very excited to be sitting in studio with the man who thought of this and brought it to fruition. And I would love to hear more about it.

Kevin: Well, I appreciate it. Partly though, I have to say that it really was more of an outgrowth of what was our business leaders training program that we’ve really been doing since the early 2000s. That was specifically one of the things that I think our board here at NIB recognized, was that they took a look at the management level at our agencies, and even within NIB, and recognized that there was going to be turnover with retirements coming up and so on. And wanted to take a look at, “How do we change the dynamics and get individuals who are blind trained to be able to take on executive-level opportunities?”

That was initially how it started. And then it continued to grow into other ways for individuals who wanted to be floor supervisors, to someone who just wanted to increase or improve their basic business skills. What I wanted to do was to take that foundation and create opportunities that would be outside the program per se. In particular, one of the things that I was really excited about was the fact of how accessible technology has been just leveling the playing field in so many different areas.

How do we take that and be able to train people who are blind into the fields of the future? So things like cybersecurity and information technology and so on were the opportunities that I really saw. And one of the areas that I’m really continuing to see and have very high hopes for is also creating a situation for individuals who want to run his or her own business. An entrepreneurial program.

I was able to really work with the board to, like I said, build upon the foundation of the business leaders program to create NSITE. And then very fortunate to bring on somebody with the skills and the expertise such as Jonathan. I’m really excited about it. I’m kind of, the one thing that I am a little sorry to see as I retire is that I really want to see that program grow, you know, expand in terms of the opportunities that it can create for other individuals.

Hoby: It’s just amazing to have a program that is such a strong training program that delivers these trainings, these courses. And they’re free courses, right? They’re all sponsored by NIB.

Kevin: Yes, many of them are sponsored. Some of them also are through –

Hoby: Vocational rehab?

Kevin: As we’ve been building the vocational rehab, you know, working with various states on that. And they see lots of value in that and so they are very open to sponsoring their individuals to be able to go through these courses.

Hoby: It’s just so powerful. I mean, getting training and becoming a guru at something is just such a life-changing thing. And it really, it really is amazing what is possible. And again, it’s sort of this theme that we’ve been talking about, once people know, you know, once a cybersecurity company like Cisco sees the power of these blind employees and what they can do, they just want more. They become thirsty, right? Because it’s incredible. It’s powerful. And all it took was persistence in showing them what they could do.

And this is the whole thing with, we’ve been talking a lot about public policy. I had a conversation with CEO Jeff Mittman and Congressman Luke Messer of Indiana that recently aired all about you just have to be persistent and explain the power of what we do, and people will get it.

Kevin: Absolutely, I agree with you.

Hoby: Kevin, I’ve got a couple more questions for you. And I really am so excited to ask these last couple of questions that I put together that are really just for you to tell us about what you really believe in and what you’re proud of. So if you look back at your career from Rochester to Georgia and now to the past 30 years at NIB, what is one thing, you can mention a few of them, that you say, I am so proud of this accomplishment that we’ve achieved? And I know everything’s a team effort, but of course that was led by you. What are your proud moments that you think about, and you can sort of relax into as you enter retirement?

Kevin: What I have found and, again, been very fortunate over the three different organizations that I’ve been in is that I’ve been very fortunate to be able to surround myself with really good people. People that really buy into the mission, that really believe in the mission. And you don’t have to push them, they know what they have to do. They know how to do it.

I’m really proud to be able to lead that kind of staff or team. And I’ve just been very fortunate. I had it in Rochester. I had it in Georgia. Even though they were individuals who were state employees, they actually bought into the improvements and the real idea that we could do more than what they had been doing. But then coming to NIB, just it was like being on the other side of the fence from an agency standpoint. And again, one of the things that I probably have missed the most is being able to walk out onto the manufacturing floor and see what the individuals are facing, the challenges that they’re facing.

But to take that and try and bring it back into an organization like NIB, that really is more of behind the, you know, back office type operation to get the staff to really understand that the work that they’re doing really has an impact on the individuals out there at our agencies.

Hoby: Amazing. It’s the people that you’ve surrounded yourself with. It’s the teams you’ve built. And it’s the work of trying to always improve conditions and improve opportunities and create more opportunities, that’s what I’ve heard from you.

Kevin: It’s been a fun 40 plus years.

Hoby: Oh my gosh, I can hear it in your voice.

Just another question. Let’s talk about business and a real use case. You worked with 3M, and you were able to show them during your Rochester time that blind people can do so much. They can make post-it notes. They can do whatever it is, whatever tasks we give them. You did it with the base supply center program. You did it again with NSITE and with these big companies like Cisco.

You know, I recently had a conversation with a dear friend who happens to run a manufacturing company and he sort of mentioned to me, oh man, you know, I’ve been listening to your podcast. I’ve been hearing what opportunities are out there and I’ve really been thinking more about hiring blind people to help me with things like packaging goods and that sort of thing, but I’m still on the fence about it. What would you tell someone like that to just get them over the line to say, just give it a try?

Kevin: Come and see one of our agencies. Come and see the workforce in action. You know, a picture is worth a thousand words. I think that’s one of the things, in terms of getting back to what I said earlier before about best kept secret. One of the things that NIB has been doing, and I think really particularly over the last year or so has really stepped up, is to improve in the way we’re getting the word out through our marketing and communications group.

As funny as it may sound is by visually putting together the information that takes away that concern that individuals have. Oh really? Can a blind person really do that and meet the quality or meet the expectations of the customer? And I can tell you, yes. But until you see it, really, I think is the thing that changes your mind.

Hoby: Go visit an agency. They all would love to give you tours and I love that advice. That’s awesome.

Now, Kevin, I know that you’re retiring from the NIB, but I’m sure you’ll always be an advocate for blind and visually impaired folks earning gainful employment. And I’m sure people will be inspired, as I have been incredibly inspired, by hearing about your career and your legacy. How can people get a hold of you if they still want to reach out?

Kevin: Very easy. If they want to, they can go ahead and email me at KLVA39@AOL.com.

Hoby: I love it, I’m putting that email in my address book now because you’re a powerful resource and have done so much great work. Kevin, when you look back on your career, you should be so proud of what you’ve accomplished and the thousands of lives that you’ve changed. And I feel so humbled and enriched and honored that I got to chat with you and put this story together. So thank you so much.

Kevin: Thank you, Hoby. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Hoby: Kevin, thank you so much. Congratulations on making a difference and being of such incredible service to our community.

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