Yasmin: You have to believe in yourself. If you really want this to happen, then you really have to believe in yourself and also that you have to be an advocate because there’s going to be a lot of nos that will come down. But you have to just hold steady with it and push through because once you get the information, once you get into the course and you get the information, there’s a lot of great information there and definitely new skills that you will learn.

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: Hello everybody and welcome back to the Heard & Empowered podcast. First, I want to thank you, listeners, for all your love and support and promoting the podcast across platforms. Please spread the love. Tell your friends about it, keep promoting it, get it out there because we are telling some great stories on this show every week. And this week is no exception.

Today, I have the pleasure of chatting with Yasmin Campbell. Yasmin, welcome to the show.

Yasmin: Thank you so much for having me.

Hoby: Well, it’s an honor to have you and to be able to chat with you. So you are an NSITE graduate, correct?

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: And NSITE is a division of the work of NIB, National Industries for the Blind. As you know, this is the Heard & Empowered podcast by NIB. So I can’t wait to chat with you about your experience with NSITE. But first, I always like to get to know the person behind the mission. Tell me a little bit about where you grew up, about your eyesight right now and sort of maybe your childhood and your college experience and what sort of led you to where you are right now.

Yasmin: OK. Well, thanks again for having me on the show.

Hoby: You bet.

Yasmin: It’s an honor to be here.

Hoby: The honor’s all mine.

Yasmin: I am originally from New York City, the Bronx in particular. And growing up, I just did the, you know, I went the normal route. I finished high school. Actually, I graduated high school in Manhattan, St. Jean Baptiste High School. And it’s an all-girls high school. And then I went on to college. I first attended Howard University for a little while, and then I came back to New York. And I was here because my mom had become ill. So I came back to New York for that, to make sure everything was OK with that.

Hoby: It’s great when we have the freedom to come back and take care of our loved ones when they’re ill.

Yasmin: Yes. And also still, I didn’t want to stop college. So once everything was good, I enrolled in college up here in New York. So I did graduate from Mercy College, also in the Bronx.

Hoby: Mercy College is great.

Yasmin: Yeah, with a bachelor’s in psychology. So when I started my journey, I knew I always wanted to help people. So I thought that was a good field. I actually did research and that’s what I came up with. And yeah, I just went on with life and I’ve lived in a couple of different states as well. So I did have the opportunity to travel. I did live in Washington, DC. I’ve lived in Texas and in Georgia. And so I was able to, at a young age, before I became a mom, got to see the world and travel. Well, not the world yet, but this country.

Hoby: No, but the United States.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: Yeah, and all beautiful places. That’s awesome.

Yasmin: Definitely, definitely. And then I want to say, so around 2009 I started to have some issues with my vision. But I didn’t think it was anything really serious until I was trying to join the military. And they said, Yasmin, you need to find out what’s going on with your vision. They would not let me go forward with going to the basic training. So I was like, OK.

Hoby: Because they noticed there was an issue with your eyesight?

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: OK.

Yasmin: Yes, so I had to go deal with that. And I was just like, all right, let’s see what this is. But I did start to notice that things, my vision was starting to decrease over the years. And I was having a lot more difficult time seeing things. And I was just like, oh my God, what is this?

So eventually in, I’m going to say around 2018 or so I finally got a diagnosis of Retinitis Pigmentosa (RP). And at least I knew there was a name for it.

Hoby: Right, and you knew what it was kind of. So it made it probably a little bit relieving, if you will, to find out, OK, I do actually have something and I know what it is.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: Yeah.

Yasmin: So after that, in my family, my aunt, my father’s sister was blind.

Hoby: Also from RP?

Yasmin: No, she became blind later in life due to diabetes. And so she was receiving services from the Lighthouse Guild in Manhattan. And so when I was telling her what was going on with me, she told me I should look into them.

Hoby: Absolutely.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: And what a blessing, by the way, to have another family member who’s also blind who can sort of show you the ropes.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: A lot of us don’t have that, so that’s an incredible opportunity. That’s great.

Yasmin: Yes, but she is no longer with us.

Hoby: I’m sorry to hear that.

Yasmin: But for the most part, in the beginning stages, she was definitely there. And once I started receiving the services at the Lighthouse Guild, you know, I was getting the typing,  training, because I also knew I wanted to go back to work. So that was my focus through the commission, was for employment.

So I was getting the typing, I did take Braille. That was just something that I didn’t know much about, but I knew that there had to be a way for me to be able to still help my son with schoolwork because at that time my son was around junior high school and there was a lot of homework there.

Hoby: Right, and you needed a way to help him.

Yasmin: So there’s a whole lot of stories there.

Hoby: Oh my gosh, I’m sure.

Yasmin: Yeah, I went through all of the training that I could get at the Lighthouse, and they did have a work experience program. And so I did try that out just to test the skills to see if I could still work, given that my vision had changed greatly.

And I did an internship at “New York Eye and Ear.” It was a hospital down in Manhattan also. And it was so funny because I worked in the department, it was a volunteer department for people. They had a program with the high school that wasn’t too far from them, and the kids would come and volunteer. Like, you know how they do the service hours?

Hoby: Right, community service, yeah.

Yasmin: Yeah. And they didn’t even know that I had a vision problem.

Hoby: See, don’t you love that?

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: We’re wonderful people, we’re normal people, and we might just happen to be visually impaired or otherwise disabled. It’s amazing how that works out and there’s no judgment there.

You took your typing classes, you took your Braille classes, you got the skills that you needed to go back and volunteer in your internship. And I want to hear a little bit about – this is just something that I think is so cool that you’ve done. Before we talk about your journey with NSITE and your journey to employment, you do a lot of advocacy work. You said that you met up with the American Council of the Blind, the New York chapter. Tell me a little bit about that.

Yasmin: Yes, and actually I had met the president of the chapter at the Lighthouse Guild. He was actually in my Braille class.

Hoby: Wow, wow. Small world.

Yasmin: So he invited me – Yeah, so he invited me to come out to a meeting. And so we meet at the Andrew Heiskell Library, it’s a talking book library down in Manhattan for the visually impaired.

Hoby: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Part of The New York Public Library, isn’t it?

Yasmin: Yes, yes.

Hoby: OK.

Yasmin: And so I went down there to the meeting, and I was like, “Oh my God, I found my community.” I was so excited about the things that they were doing. At the first meeting I went to, they had the TLC there. We always have guest speakers come in from the different agencies.

Hoby: And what is TLC?

Yasmin: The Taxi Limousine Commission. So we had them come. We had Access-A-Ride, MTA. So I was just like, “OK.” So the Greater New York Council of the Blind is very heavy into advocacy. That’s our focus. And so this was the first time that I got to participate in something because now it was affecting me. So I was just like, “OK, let me become involved.” And I was always interested to find out more information. So I started attending the meetings. There’s always a monthly meeting with the Mayor’s Office for People with Disabilities, and so I started going there.

So little by little, I started to try things out. And then I met other people. And then I met another lady, her name is Kathy Collins, and she’s over at Downstate New York ADAPT. And she is one of the co-coordinators for our voter engagement group. And so I started going over there and attending a couple of meetings.

And then a few years later, I was a co-coordinator for the employment group. I worked with another lady from the National Federation of the Blind. But we were hoping to get that working group back up again, it ran for a good year. And we did different Zoom work presentations regarding working, and resume writing, and things like that. And this is when I started to take the classes for NSITE. So I was doing things kind of simultaneously.

Hoby: So we’ll get to NSITE in a minute, but I think it’s great that you worked on an employment working group, just a volunteer, not just, a volunteer group basically trying to enhance employment opportunities for folks who are blind, right?

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: You mentioned also that you were on their board. You were on the board of the ACB Council.

Yasmin: Yes, I’m on the board at the Greater New York Council of the Blind. I’m also first vice president of ACBNY, which is the American Council of the Blind of the State of New York. So I’m the State’s first vice president and I’m also the chairperson for our State Diversity Committee, as well.

Hoby: So you’re really getting out there. And just five years ago, you saw a major decrease in your vision. You went and got training and, shoot, look at you. You’re now first vice president of the American Council of the Blind of New York. That’s huge.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: You mentioned another group, which was the Braille Revival Guild?

Yasmin: The Braille Revival League of New York.

Hoby: Braille Revival League of New York. Tell me a little bit about that because I think literacy, being able to read Braille is such a wonderful skill. And being able to keep that around, I think, is so important.

Yasmin: Yes, so we have a chapter in New York, the Braille Revival League of New York. So I joined that. Actually, my Braille teacher is the president of that chapter and she wanted to get it up and running. There is a national chapter. And so within our community of ACB, there are a lot of people that live in the New York City area. But we do have members even like upstate New York.

So we all meet and basically what we’re trying to do there is put the word out about Braille and literacy and share different things. We do have a friend of mine, she’s really into games, and I swear like she always knows where to find any kind of gadget, any kind of anything.

Hoby: I love it.

Yasmin: And she has given me so much advice as somebody – She is a mom, and she was sighted and then went blind. So she also has a daughter, and she was just trying to find out how she could do things too. And I was just like, OK, that sounds like me. And so many interesting things that she has shared with us, with me about different things that I really didn’t know about. So it was definitely helpful.

And she’s also a board member on the Braille Revival League of New York. And like I said, we definitely are focusing more on literacy and being able to go past the basics. Like when you get services from the commission, they only stop at a certain level is what I was told. So you’ll learn your alphabet, your contractions, and things like that, but there’s nothing past that. Unless you –

Hoby: More advanced Braille learning is so cool and so important, yes.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: Yeah.

Yasmin: Definitely.

Hoby: And again, I’ll just pull this back in and say it’s great that, again, the small world aspect of this, that you found your Braille teacher at Lighthouse Guild and then you were able to help her out with the Braille Revival League. I love that.

Let’s shift gears here, I want to talk to you about employment. And take me, if you would please, on the journey of trying to get back into work. You started, you worked an internship as a volunteer at the hospital and then you found NSITE and went through their program. Walk me through the journey of trying to get back into employment and how you found NSITE and what the experience was working with NSITE.

Yasmin: So trying to get back into work, after I did the internship I thought we were going to be hired at the hospital. And then we found out that there was no money in the budget, apparently. At least that’s what we were told. So I was just like, “OK.” I mean, I was really excited, me and there was another guy who was working there as well. But they didn’t have the funds to be able to hire us permanently.

So I was just like, “OK”. I was a little down in the dumps and then I was talking to a friend of mine who said he was in this program that he thinks would be good for me. And he said, “I know you’re really serious about this employment journey. I know you want to get back to work.” And then he gave me the information. And then that is where NSITE came into play.

Hoby: So he knew about NSITE. Had he done the program and graduated from NSITE as well?

Yasmin: Yes, he went through the program.

Hoby: OK. And he enjoyed it so much that he recommended it to you.

Yasmin: Yes, but he told me that he was having a little more trouble with it because he was older. But he said, “I think you would probably do OK with going forward afterwards because you’re still kind of young.” So I was just like, “OK, we’ll see, we’ll see.”

So I did my research and I contacted NSITE, and we had a call back and forth. And I let them know I was being referred. And then, OK, yes, I want to go forward with this. So we had to have a conversation with my commission counselor and then they were able to get it approved for me.

And then I want to say like in the fall, I think, I’m going to say it’s been about two years now that I had started it. The training was online.

Hoby: OK, and what specifically were you learning?

Yasmin: It’s called a Sourcer. It was like a Sourcing Program.

Hoby: And what does that mean?

Yasmin: It’s kind of like a little bit of HR, like a recruiter kind of thing and you’re looking for candidates to fill positions.

Hoby: Got it, OK.

Yasmin: So it was a certification course, so you got a certificate at the end. So everything was online, and we would have weekly classes and there was homework and just like a regular, like you were in college.

Hoby: I love it. I love it. And exams and all that.

Hoby: At this time, I don’t even remember. We probably had quizzes and stuff. As you’re going through the training material, they’ll give you a little quiz.

Hoby: Just to make sure you’re understanding the material?

Yasmin: Yes, that you’re retaining the information.

Hoby: Sure.

Yasmin: And so it was a 12 week program and then there was the internship after. So in January we would have started the internship. But we actually started a little bit later, but it was definitely in the beginning of that year, the next year.

So Bristol Myers Squibb had been working with NSITE and my group was the second group, the second cohort to go through the training. And then –

Hoby: And it was a yearlong. Let me just go back here. It was a yearlong training, roughly?

Yasmin: No, not really a year long, but 12 weeks. We finished in March because we had the graduation in March. So I want to say it was from like September to March.

Hoby: That’s awesome.

Yasmin: Yeah.

Hoby: And because of NSITE’s job board, they’re connected to groups who can either provide employment or internships, and who not only can, are able to, but who truly want to employ folks who are blind or visually impaired.

Yasmin: Yes, yes. And they helped us –

Hoby: So you graduated from NSITE, and you were placed in this internship?

Yasmin: The internship was before the graduation. So this was all part of the course. So you had to complete the internship. So we worked with Bristol Myers Squibb, and this was also done remote. They were doing hybrid still, and they’re located in New Jersey.

Hoby: Got it. And what do they do?

Yasmin: Well, Bristol Myers? They’re more like a pharmaceutical kind of company. A lot of drug companies trying to find cures for different illnesses and things like that. They’re very tech heavy. I did not know that at first. I mean, I had heard of them from back in the day, but I never knew that they were as tech heavy as they were.

So what we did with the internship, they were having a big hiring event in March, and they were looking for about 2,000 people with tech backgrounds to come in person to the hiring event, like a job fair. And what the group was tasked to do, they placed us with different members of the Bristol Myers team, and we sourced.

So we found the candidates, they gave us the job descriptions, and then they did have a couple of people who actually responded or who they had resumes already for. And then we would call them to set up interviews and we would do like a once over, you know, ask them a couple of questions to see if they could move on to actually speak to the recruiter. And they let us come in under like the strategy calls with the different companies. So I definitely learned a lot.

Hoby: Wow. And was that a paid opportunity?

Yasmin: No, this was not paid. But it was, let me tell you, after I finished and graduated, I even had my commission counselor, she came to the graduation and everything.

Hoby: That’s awesome, that’s awesome.

Yasmin: Yes, but once I put that I did that internship and that name, Bristol Myers, after that I started to get interviews. Like people were like, oh, OK.

Hoby: I love that.

Yasmin: So I knew it was worth it. I knew it was worth it and I was like, OK, I’m on my way back into the workforce.

Hoby: Because you had taken, after the internship at the hospital, the volunteer opportunity, there was quite a while before you went and did the NSITE training.

Yasmin: Yes, because it took a while to get in contact with the people at NSITE and then the people, with my commission counselor. So it kind of was rushed because I think we had to wait until the next class was about to start.

Hoby: But having that resume item directly related to your experience with NSITE, getting to work with Bristol Myers is just an incredible opportunity.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: And tell me how that led to you ultimately finding the current work that you’re doing.

Yasmin: Actually, it was funny because after that, I did get hired at a city agency. Like I went through a temp agency. So it had been some time since I had graduated from the course. But then what was happening in the country, you know, inflation started to be a real problem and I was noticing that, OK, I’m spending a lot more money on food. It’s not, you know, the income is not lasting as long as it once was. And it was getting to be very difficult. So I was like, I knew I had to go back, like I had to rev it up.

So I was applying online to a whole lot of jobs. And I said, “OK, let me go through a temp agency.” A cousin of mine was telling me about that. So I said, “OK, let me go and do it.” And then I got a call, I went to a temp agency through Catholic Charities. So I was able to come in, interview, and then I was just waiting. I said, “OK, well, we’ll see how long this takes”, but I still was applying to other places. And then I got a placement with a city agency, they have to remain nameless, I’m sorry.

Hoby: Sure. Sure. No, it’s fine. No, no, no.

Yasmin: But I say all that to say because it wasn’t actually a good experience, but this is how I found my current job.

Hoby: Oh my gosh.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: So how did that work out?

Yasmin: I ended up resigning from the other job.

Hoby: The city agency?

Yasmin: The city agency, but they had asked me, but that was because of the Bristol Myers Squibb is how they contacted me. When they saw that, it was just like, oh, you see, tell us more about this. They were very interested in knowing more about the internship. And I said, “OK, hear that name, that name.” OK. So I eventually got hired with that agency as a temp worker.

And then this is where things started to become a little interesting. And I guess they were not used to people with a disability coming to work.

Hoby: But you know what? Having that freedom to resign is gold. It’s so good when you know, hey, this isn’t the right experience for me. And you can say, nope, I’m not going to do that.

Yasmin: Yeah, but I actually had to get permission, but it was definitely warranted. And they understood, I let them know what was happening there. But while I was there, my current job had contacted me and when I spoke to the director, I was just like, “I’m so sorry, but I’m already employed.” And she was just like, “Oh my God, I’m so sorry that I’m so late!”

But a friend of mine told me, “You know, OK – This was like in September. And he told me, he was like, “Look, just go call her back and see what she’s talking about and then you can make a decision”, because he knew that things were not going well at that job I was at. And eventually I was able to transition into my current job.

Hoby: Oh my gosh, you were able to resign from the city agency and immediately transition to your current role?

Yasmin: Not immediately, it took some time. I’m still kind of new, but I’ve been working there since December of last year.

Hoby: Maybe you can explain to me the timetable, like not the timetable, but the current director wanted you to work for her, but you were already employed at the city agency.

Yasmin: Yes, I had applied for my current job, I had applied during the summer, last summer.

Hoby: Got it, and she was ready for you finally.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: And you had a job, but she kept that job open for you so that once you resigned, you could pick up the job where you’re currently working.

Yasmin: Well, she kind of really didn’t keep it for me, but she said, I knew once I called her back, she was so happy that I called her back. She was like, “It must be a sign from God that we’re meant to be together.” And so, yes, and then that’s how we started the process there. And this was more, you know, my current job, it’s a place built around people for disabilities. So the staff –

Hoby: Tell me where you work.

Yasmin: I work at the Harlem Independent Living Center in Manhattan.

Hoby: I love that.

Yasmin: And half the staff has to be people with disabilities, like it’s a requirement.

Hoby: That’s incredible.

Yasmin: So I was like, “OK.”

Hoby: That’s incredible.

Yasmin: They understood the accommodations that I needed.

Hoby: Yes, didn’t only understand, but championed and wanted someone with a disability for this role.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: That’s incredible.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: And what do you do for them?

Yasmin: I am a housing/benefits planner, which means I work alongside the housing advocate. So when people come in, they’re usually looking for affordable housing. And in New York City, that’s truly hard to find. What we assist with is finding out what they are really trying to do, to accomplish as far as housing. We’ll give them a list of a couple of resources that they can go and search and try to figure out which ones that apply to them. We do get a lot of seniors calling about housing. People from nursing homes wanting to leave the nursing home to get back into the community.

Hoby: Go back on their own. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: And are they all people with disabilities who you work with? Are those your clients?

Yasmin: Yes. We do have a few that may come with someone with a disability, but our main focus is for people with all types of disabilities; mental, physical.

Hoby: Mobility.

Yasmin: Mobility, all of it.

Hoby: Yeah.

Yasmin: And yeah, so we do that. Peer support, independent living skills training, so helping people to be more of an advocate for themselves, to get the services that they need or that they want, so they can live a more fulfilling life.

Hoby: Sometimes do you guys give them products like mobility aids and that sort of thing as well?

Yasmin: Not so much that. In my experience it’s been more like for somebody who’s visually impaired, where to go, like, to the commission.

Hoby: And you can hook them up with the commission.

Yasmin: Yes. So we can, you know, there’s definitely an information and referral service that we have. And so people are looking for, they want to get back into the workforce and if they have a disability, we can refer them to, like, Workforce One, or Access VR. And then we always follow up with them to see if there’s any other things that they may need or need help with. And we have a couple of nice stories that’s going to be coming out, you know, success stories. So we’re excited about that.

Hoby: I can’t wait to read those. Yeah, I can’t wait to read those. And I know there’s a program across the country kind of started by Ed Roberts called Centers for Independent Living, and this sounds like one of those centers, correct?

Yasmin: Yes. Yes.

Hoby: It’s amazing.

Yasmin: This is the center.

Hoby: That’s amazing. So look, we’ve come full circle. You went to college knowing that you wanted to help people and what are you doing now? You’re helping many people every day.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: I love this. I love this, my friend. That is so beautiful.

So we’re running a little bit short on time, but I’ve got a couple of questions for you. None of us would be able to do any of this work without great mentors. Who have been some of your mentors that you would highlight along the way?

Yasmin: I would say definitely within the American Council of the Blind. Like, my chapter president, his name is Terence Page. And him and I, we definitely have our arguments.

Hoby: Oh, sure.

Yasmin: But he’s filled with a lot of information. He’s been doing this for a long time.

Hoby: But it’s healthy banter.

Yasmin: Yes, yes. And I’ve definitely learned a lot. And I swear he thinks I don’t listen to him, but I was, like, “I promise you, you’re sitting on my shoulder. You really are sitting on my shoulder.” Between him and then on the other shoulder is Kathy Collins from Downstate New York ADAPT. And getting that voting information out and talking about the ballot marking device. And I was just like, oh my God. OK, guys, I got it. I got it.

Hoby: And then also Maurice, you mentioned the names Maurice and Marianne from NSITE too.

Yasmin: Yes, Maurice and Marianne, we definitely still keep in contact. And they have heard the horror stories of things. And now I’m just really happy that there’s a success story at the end of that because they’ve been along with me on that journey for a long time as well. So I cannot forget them. And of course, my family and the people at the Lighthouse Guild. I’ve definitely come across a lot of great people there. And they come in, they let us do our workshops.

Hoby: Sure, sure, sure. Well, that’s incredible. And I’d say it’s because of, largely because of the training that you got at NSITE that you’re now in what we might call your dream job.

Yasmin: Yes, yes. And you know what, it was so funny because as I was looking for work and all of the advocacy stuff I was doing, I was like, there has to be a name for this. Like, is there a job title for this? Like, what is this called? But I am truly grateful and blessed that I have come full circle, and I am back in the working world now.

Hoby: Well, you should be very proud of that. And I’m very proud of you, I’ll just say that.

Yasmin: Thank you.

Hoby: I’m really excited for what you’ve done. What advice would you tell someone who’s on the fence thinking, “Gosh, I have my low vision skills that I need. I really might want to go back to work, but I’m sort of nervous to apply for the NSITE program and get those skills that I need for employment.” What would you tell them?

Yasmin: I would say definitely, one, you have to believe in yourself. If you really want this to happen, then you really have to believe in yourself. And also that you have to be an advocate because there’s going to be a lot of nos that will come down. But you have to just hold steady with it and push through because once you get the information, once you get into the course and you get the information, there’s a lot of great information there and definitely new skills that you will learn.

Hoby: And such valuable skills.

Yasmin: Yes.

Hoby: Yeah. Yes,  I love it.

Yasmin: And it will make you stand out because we’re already at a disadvantage with having a disability. So sometimes employees don’t want to take a chance on us, but if we’re coming and showing that we can do this also, and make sure you’re prepared also. Definitely make sure you’re prepared for interviews and your resume is up to par. And NSITE, that was one of the things that they helped us out with. They created the LinkedIn profile and everything for us.

Hoby: And helped you update your resume and talk about those soft skills that are so valuable during the interview process.

Yasmin: Definitely.

Hoby: Yeah. So believe in yourself and allow NSITE to help you be totally prepared to get out there and stick your neck out and find the job of your dreams.

Yasmin: Exactly.

Hoby: Yasmin, it has been an absolute joy talking to you. I love hearing about how NSITE helped you get this great job. And I love just getting to know you and congratulations on all your amazing advocacy work, both in the office, in your workplace, and the volunteer work that you do personally. It’s just incredible.

Yasmin: Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time.

Hoby: I know there are going to be people that are super excited about getting in touch with you and wanting advice from you. How can people get a hold of you?

Yasmin: I could leave my email.

Hoby: If you don’t mind if we include your email in the show notes, that would be incredible.

Yasmin: Yeah, that’s fine.

Hoby: Thank you so much.

Yasmin: OK, so the email is A-S-K-Y-A-S 20@gmail.com. And you could also find us, the Greater New York Council of the Blind, we have a website. Our website is G-N-Y-C-B.org. You don’t need the www in front of it.

Hoby: Yeah, we got it.

Yasmin: You just type it in, and it will come up.

Hoby: Great, great, great.

Yasmin: So, that’s where you could find us.

Hoby: Thank you.

Yasmin: Yeah.

Hoby: Well, thank you for your time. I think we’d be delighted to have you on again sometime as a reappearing guest. And it has been a pleasure speaking with you.

Yasmin: Thank you so much.

Hoby: Thank you so much.

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