Sophia: I believe that you get what you give. So if you want to get out, you want to get a better life, you have to just shake off insecurities. I know it’s easier said than done, but you just really have to pull yourself up, what do they say, by the bootstraps.

Hoby: Right, you have to lift yourself up by the bootstraps.

Sophia: You’ve got to get back out there.

Welcome to the Heard & Empowered podcast presented by National Industries for the Blind. You’re not just a listener here, you’re a catalyst for change. Whether you’re blind, visually impaired or an ally, this is your ultimate resource for building a fulfilling career and an enriching life. We’re on a mission to shift perceptions, open hearts and minds, and unlock unparalleled job opportunities for the BVI community. Ready to be heard and empowered? Let’s welcome our host, Dr. Hoby Wedler.

Hoby: This is a special episode recorded at the 2023 National Industries for the Blind Conference in Washington DC. Please excuse any audio quirks as we capture these conversations, but we guarantee the wisdom is pure gold.

Hello, and welcome back to the Heard & Empowered podcast. Today I’m so excited to be chatting with Sophia McCall. Sophia, welcome to the show.

Sophia: Thank you for having me.

Hoby: It’s a lot of fun to have you. You’re very inspirational. We’re going to hear about your story and so much more as we have this chat today. So if you could first of all share with me, where are you currently working?

Sophia: I work at Lighthouse Works, Lighthouse Central Florida.

Hoby: Lighthouse Works, Lighthouse Central Florida. That’s fantastic. And you’re an employee of the year here at the 2023 National Industries for the Blind Conference and Expo.

Sophia: Very exciting.

Hoby: Oh, that’s so cool. Tell us a little bit about the process to get nominated for or to nominate yourself for and then ultimately become an employee of the year.

Sophia: It was unexpected really because I never would have put myself into that category. My manager actually did it. And then when she told me about it, I was like, you know, cliché, me? And it’s been so exciting ever since then just to think about it and then to read on LinkedIn all the other nominees because the NIB was doing stories on each one of them on LinkedIn. So just to read everybody else, like I’m in a good crew.

Hoby: That’s incredible. And how does the nomination process work? Does someone submit an essay to nominate you that’s then reviewed or?

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: Wow! Well, congratulations. It’s a huge honor. And anyone listening to this who goes to work for one of NIB’s supported agencies could have the opportunity sometime to be honored as an employee of the year. What sort of things have you gotten to do and will get to do over the course of this convention?

Sophia: Well, the biggest thing for me was the general session yesterday. That was great, just hearing all of the speakers. So going through the networking things that they’ve been having so far. And I’m also an NIB advocate, a public policy advocate.

Hoby: Tell us about that.

Sophia: So I was in the 2020 class. So with that, it’s just you’re going through, talking to legislation, trying to get people to come to your agencies to have them…There are different asks that we have each year and each season that we’re asking our politicians for to help the community. And so I’m out there, I’m still doing it, reaching out to local representatives to get them to come to Lighthouse so they can see what their constituents are doing, because we are an underserved community.

Hoby: Right. That’s amazing. And are you an advocate for Lighthouse Works, Lighthouse Central Florida?

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: Okay. That’s incredible. So that made the general session, which happens every year at the conference, super meaningful to you.

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: I love that. Yeah. No, it’s a huge honor and we’re really excited to celebrate you at tomorrow night’s banquet.

Sophia: Thank you.

Hoby: That’ll be phenomenal.

Sophia, as far as I understand, you lost your sight. You weren’t born blind, correct?

Sophia: Correct.

Hoby: Can you tell me a little bit about your past and how you went from your early life to now working in a really exciting role for Lighthouse Works, Lighthouse Central Florida?

Sophia: Yeah. So I’m actually from South Carolina.

Hoby: Okay.

Sophia: I was born and raised in Florence, South Carolina. Around 2014 I moved to Orlando, Florida because of the big lights and it was like, I want to go here, and this is going to be my city.

Hoby: Sure.

Sophia: It was me and my kids. I had four at the time. Four teenagers at the time when I moved here. Well, two were in elementary school because I have twins, and then my oldest two were in middle school.

Hoby: Wow!

Sophia: And so we moved to Orlando and then I got a job, and I was working. I was working in a call center doing mail order pharmacy and then my vision started getting blurry. I was wearing contacts, so I was going, the doctor was upping my prescription to try to make it better. I’m enlarging my screen, doing all the – I even bought a magnifier because that’s how bad it got. And then I woke up one morning and there was a hemorrhage in my eye. So I had a big blood spot in my eye. And from there, everything happened really quickly. That was around April of 2015.

Hoby: Okay.

Sophia: So then I had laser surgery. This was my left eye. I had the vitrectomy.

Hoby: Okay.

Sophia: That’s where they try to reattach the retina.

Hoby: Right.

Sophia: But nothing ever came of that. So we were trying to save my right eye, so I had laser surgery about twice.

Hoby: That you were awake for?

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: Wow!

Sophia: Terrible.

Hoby: Yeah, that doesn’t sound like fun.

Sophia: No, it doesn’t. But I was willing.

Hoby: You were willing to do anything.

Sophia: Yeah, willing to do anything.

Hoby: Yeah.

Sophia: And then January of 2016 was when I had my last surgery. And when they took the bandages off, I could see like a pinhole of light.

Hoby: Wow!

Sophia: Yes, and I cried because it was like, well, it may come in. But it didn’t. Not in April of 2015, and by January of 2016 I was completely blind. So I went through all of those stages of losing, anger, denial.

Hoby: Yeah.

Sophia: I had to hurry up and do something because I had four children.

Hoby: Right.

Sophia: And I was like –

Hoby: And it must have been really hard raising children, dealing with that emotionally.

Sophia: It was because all of my family wasn’t here at the time.

Hoby: Right.

Sophia: I had one brother who was here, and my mom was here at that time. But when you have children, they depend on you.

Hoby: How did they handle it?

Sophia: My kids, I know everybody says this, but mine are the best. They fell in line, and they were not knuckleheads at all.

Hoby: Good.

Sophia: They did what they were supposed to, and I think they actually pushed me to move ahead because they were looking at me like…Their father died early, so it’s always been me and them.

Hoby: Yeah.

Sophia: So I think they were like, “This is nothing for you.” They didn’t say that, but that’s how their attitude was.

Hoby: Right.

Sophia: And so I…

Hoby: Right, like mom can do anything.

Sophia: Yeah. Yeah. And I think at one point I was just scared of everything. You know, going from fully sighted to not seeing. Everything was scaring me.

Hoby: Yes.

Sophia: Yes. When the kids went to school, I would just lock myself in my room because I was scared.

Hoby: Yeah.

Sophia: And so my son, actually, we looked, and I was like, I want to talk to some other blind people. So we went online looking for support groups and we came across Division of Blind Services and they referred me to Lighthouse.

Hoby: Wow!

Sophia: Yeah. And then when I started with them, I tell people when I first walked in that door, because you have no – well, I had no idea that the people that were helping me were blind – because they were, in my head I’m seeing gloom, but they were energetic and laughing and happy.

Hoby: Happy.

Sophia: Yes. And I was like, that changed my life.

Hoby: Oh my gosh.

Sophia: I was like, oh, I do have this.

Hoby: Oh my gosh.

Sophia: I’m going to be like these people.

Hoby: And it was in a day. It was like in that morning that it turned around.

Sophia: Yes, because I went in there and the receptionist– he was blind – and he was like, “You want some coffee or some water?” And then he just eased me into a conversation. And the lady who took my intake, she was blind, and I didn’t know it. And she had a service animal, I could hear him breathing. And she was like, “You scared of dogs?” And I was like, “Yes.” And look, I have one.

Hoby: Oh my gosh.

Sophia: And then the guy who did my assistive technology, he just put the computer board in front of me, like a keyboard. I had no idea he was completely blind. And we were doing the assessment and at that time, even though I had been typing basically all my life, I could barely type my name because I didn’t know the –

Hoby: You were using your eyes to type.

Sophia: Yeah.

Hoby: And he taught you how to type.

Sophia: He taught me how to type. And he was like, you know, they have a call center. I think you’d be good for it.

Hoby: Oh my gosh.

Sophia: Yeah, before I started at Lighthouse I went on Amazon and had my kids buy me a white cane because I wanted my independence. I didn’t want to have to depend on anybody.

Hoby: And you didn’t really know how to use it.

Sophia: I did not. It was the wrong one, but I was trying.

Hoby: Yeah, you have that tenacity.

Sophia: Yeah.

Hoby: So how long after you started at Lighthouse, started getting training at Lighthouse, did you find out about the call center?

Sophia: I started taking training at Lighthouse in July, in November.

Hoby: Wow! And what’s really amazing about this is that you then were thinking, okay, I can take the skills that I had when I was sighted working at a call center, and transfer them right to this one.

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: And tell me about what I would call your employment trajectory at Lighthouse.

Sophia: Well, because I had no expectations, I just wanted to work. So when I was at the front desk, being so new to me, this world, I was like, “Oh, this is good.” Because I wanted to be in the call center, but they were like, you’re not quite ready. Your JAWS skills aren’t quite ready, so we’ll develop you.

Hoby: Wow!

Sophia: So I was at the front desk learning JAWS. There was another guy there that was helping me so much.

Hoby: And you were working as a receptionist at the front desk?

Sophia: Yeah.

Hoby: The one now being happy and offering people coffee and water?

Sophia: Yes, yes.

Hoby: And that was from July to November?

Sophia: Yeah.

Hoby: Oh my gosh, you have given me goosebumps telling this story.

Sophia: I wanted it so bad. I wanted to get back to me, is what I wanted.

Hoby: So how long did you spend at the front desk before going to the call center?

Sophia: I went into the call center, I think I was there maybe six months.

Hoby: Wow! And then you went to the call center the next, like April or May?

Sophia: Yeah.

Hoby: And tell me what happened there. You started as a representative?

Sophia: I started as a representative. Customer service is something that I’m good at. So with the skills that I had already learned, I was getting QA scores 100%.

Hoby: Wow!

Sophia: I was doing that. I was able to, you know, it started out kind of slow. I had to get used to it, but I was meeting all the metrics that they were giving. And, of course, I was coming to work because, like I said, I wanted it so bad.

Hoby: Yeah. And at this point, your kids are happier too.

Sophia: Yes, they are happier too because –

Hoby: They see that you’re happy.

Sophia: Mm-hmm.

Hoby: Wow! So then you started as a representative, you were getting great QA scores. QA stands for?

Sophia: Quality.

Hoby: Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. And then did you move up from there? I think you told me that you moved up from there to supervisor.

Sophia: I went to a team lead. I applied for it. Everybody was in the running for it because everybody wants to be a team lead, well, most people do. This one, I kind of had doubts about it. I was like, I don’t know. But a manager was like, you should apply for it. So I applied and did my interview. If it’s not anything, I am pretty confident. So I went in with the idea that I am a team lead, it’s just I haven’t been given the title yet.

Hoby: I love it. I love it. I love the confidence and the tenacity.

Sophia: And I got that role. And then shortly after that, in September of 2020 I became an amputee.

Hoby: Oh wow.

Sophia: Another one, devastating. I actually told my mom, I said, “Mom, I am cursed.” And she said, “No, you’re not. As long as you have life, you have a chance.”

Hoby: Amen.

Sophia: So that was in September. But, again, I refused to be held down. By November I was back at work.

Hoby: With only one arm or one leg?

Sophia: One leg.

Hoby: Oh my gosh. That is remarkable. So you took a month off to recover from that?

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: That’s amazing.

Sophia: When I first put on my prosthetic, the lady was like, I know you haven’t done this before. And I was like, “I need to be able to do me.”

Hoby: I love it. So you went back as a team lead in November?

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: And then you moved your way up to supervisor.

Sophia: Yeah. So from there, I became a trainer. And then from there, I had always been working on being a recruiter. Not a recruiter, but I wanted to be in human resources.

Hoby: Yes. What drove you to like human resources?

Sophia: People. I love dealing with people. When I was at the front desk, I was like, I should put a little cup up here because people used to love to come and talk to me and tell me things. So I just love talking to people. And it turned into something bigger where I’m able to give back to people, to give them the motivation that, you know, because a lot of people that I speak to haven’t worked in a long time because they haven’t had the opportunity or the companies that’ll have the technology they need. So I’m there.

My side hustle is cheerleading. So I’m there too, you know, even if they aren’t ready for us, I want to give them what they need so they can get ready.

Hoby: That’s amazing. That’s really incredible. And you’re lifting spirits as you do it. Now you’re, as Kyle said, the first recruiter for the call center they’ve ever had. That’s amazing. And you’re going to be hiring other recruiters.

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: And you’re the one that’s going to be doing the hiring.

Sophia: Yeah.

Hoby: See, this is blowing my mind. From 2017, look at where we are right now in 2023. In six years you went from complete depression to applying for a job and getting it, to now you’re sitting on the other side of the table in the hiring person’s chair. That’s incredible, Sophia. No wonder you’re an employee of the year. That really, this is truly wonderful.

So you enjoy getting people to a level, you take them even in little bits and little, tiny chunks, right, you take them to a closer place to that leaping off point of where they can really go out and either get the training they need and or get the work they need.

Sophia: Yeah.

Hoby: I mean, that’s kind of a golden talent. The talent that everybody longs for. What is it that you do? How do you go about really finding out what people need in a kind, because I can tell you’re just nothing but a benevolent human being, in a non-obtrusive, kind manner? How do you do it?

Sophia: I know that it’s not what you say, but how you say it.

Hoby: Tell me more about that.

Sophia: So if I’m talking to someone and their skills aren’t where we need them to be, I don’t rush in and tell them, “Okay, well, you’re not a good fit.” What I ask them is, “How do you think that went?” And a lot of times, people will be like, “Well, I think it went pretty good.”

But then I want to give them the truth. I say, “Okay, well, let me tell you what I saw. And these are some things that I think you can work on, but I don’t doubt that eventually you will get it. Let’s reach out to your counselor and see what they can do to help you on this, this, and this.” You know, because I want them for the call center, but sometimes the call center isn’t for everybody.

Hoby: Right.

Sophia: But I don’t want to discourage anyone because some people are in a place – you never know what people are going through, and what you say to them could crush them.

Hoby: Right.

Sophia: So, like, I’m kind to people because I want them to be kind to me.

Hoby: Absolutely.

Sophia: But I’m also truthful. So I’m not going to lie to you and tell you you’re doing such a great job when you’re really not, because that’s not helpful.

Hoby: It’s not helpful at all. But it’s also really good to be kind to people.

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: And that’s such an important statement, to treat people like we like to be treated. Yeah. And how often when you’re looking for talent, do you talk to someone and say, “Okay, here’s where you can improve your skills,” and they come back a few months later, and reapply?

Sophia: That is the best feeling. It happens a lot, actually.

Hoby: Wow!

Sophia: And it is the best feeling. I have someone now and she calls me like every couple of months, “I’m still working on it, Sophia.” I’m like, “I’m so glad, I know you can get it.” And then when they do get it and come back and they’re ready, it’s the best feeling. So it happens.

Hoby: I get emotional hearing about that. That’s a really beautiful thing. And there’s something about this personality that you have that is so important, and just in the way that people are approaching life and living the life that they want to live. How can we help anyone who’s listening to this show, say someone who feels really down and out, like things are not easy and things are not possible, and how the heck are they going to get to where they need to be?

Maybe their kids went to school, and they locked themselves in their room and they’re listening right now. Or maybe they’re on their way to getting those skills. But what advice can you give people for just moving forward and building that confidence?

Sophia: I would say just remember that even if you feel very alone, which is one of the things that got me. I’m like being blind feels so isolating.

Hoby: Yeah.

Sophia: So even if you feel so alone, there are people. There’s somebody that’s watching you. Somebody that maybe cares from a distance.

Hoby: Yeah.

Sophia: Show them that you can help yourself too. You have to. I believe that you get what you give. So if you want to get out, you want to get a better life, you have to just shake off insecurities. I know it’s easier said than done, but you just really have to pull yourself up, what do they say, by the bootstraps?

Hoby: Right, you have to lift yourself up by the bootstraps.

Sophia: You’ve got to get back out there.

Hoby: Yeah.

Sophia: You can’t be scared. Confidence is going to be one thing that carries you a long way. So if you’re going in to an employer, or out into the world in general, and you’re very unsure, because sometimes people can feel it and see it in your face. And despite everything, like my mom told me, as long as you’re breathing, there’s a reason to keep going.

Hoby: That is so true. That is so incredibly true. I bet your kids are totally amazing, confident people because of your ability to lead by example. That’s so cool. That’s really, really inspirational for me to hear what you’re saying right now, because it’s so needed.

And I don’t care where someone is in their trajectory of a career or lack thereof, whether they’re a CEO of a company and doing really well, not everything’s going well. And the reminders that you’re giving them are so incredibly important. All the way to someone who’s really down and out, trying to find themselves.

How can we get families of folks who feel that their kid is, or not kid, but blind or visually impaired relative, isn’t cut out to work and should just keep living off – and there’s no lack of dignity in using support from state or federal sources. But what can we tell family members who say, “Oh, you shouldn’t get out and work, you should just keep receiving benefits?” How do we do this?

Sophia: How do we do that?

Hoby: Because there’s so much that people can do, that maybe their families, because they have such low expectations…I think just getting families to understand that you don’t need to have eyesight to have desire, and drive, and care, right?

Sophia: Yes. I would say to the families, I think some of them are just scared to have their blind or visually impaired family member go out into the world. But I would say to them that there are so many examples of people who are doing it, give them a chance.

Hoby: Yes.

Sophia: But sometimes you think you’re helping, but in the long run it could actually hurt because what happens when that person is by themselves? So what happens when you’re not there to help them? Anything could happen, really. That person needs to be able to, if they’re the only ones there, they need to be able to walk out of the room.

Hoby: Yeah, they do.

Sophia: They need to be able to leave or to find stairs or to know how to ask for help from someone other than family.

Hoby: Right.

Sophia: So independence, for people with disabilities, is something that’s kind of underrated, but it’s so needed.

Hoby: You know, for many years, I’m a chemist by training, and I taught chemistry camps to blind students at a little nonprofit. We brought in about 15 students per year and did this for about six years. And I didn’t want the parents to come with their kids. It was an overnight camp. It was two nights and three days. We would fly people in from across the country, even someone from Korea. But I always did a cooking unit. And a lot of people would ask me, what? We’re doing chemistry. Why are we cooking? I’d say because we all need practice doing things maybe we haven’t done before.

When I surveyed my students, 16, 17, 18 years old, a percentage that is nearly 50% of them said that they were never allowed in their kitchen by their family before because they were too afraid of the stove. So I made them grill their own burgers over charcoal because that’s the only way to learn.

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: You’ve got to just do it. And then they’d come home and say, “Hey mom, hey dad, I’m cooking burgers tonight.”

“What?!”

But then parents would ease into letting them do it. And when they got to do that work, when they got to cook those burgers, their families were proud. And they, whose families had always said, “You can’t do this,” were proud. They felt the confidence of success, of getting something done.

The challenges that we need to take on in order to feel and taste that success are not big ones, right?

Sophia: Right.

Hoby: They’re small. Do you feel like you are totally content as a blind person? Like you’ve done it? Like you’ve found your happy place?

Sophia: Not yet.

Hoby: Not yet?

Sophia: No.

Hoby: What’s next for Sophia?

Sophia: Conquer the world, maybe.

Hoby: I love it.

Sophia: I’m not sure, but I just – I’m not sure.

Hoby: You’re not done?

Sophia: No.

Hoby: Keep on going, and keep making the world a better place with your amazingly positive energy.

Sophia: Oh, and one other thing I wanted to just mention for independence for families.

Hoby: Please.

Sophia: Independence also goes with job coaches too, because I’ve had job coaches who were like, “Okay, well, I’m going to come to the interview.” Why would you do that? We don’t need you at the interview with them to do that. So sometimes job coaches being helpful, they’re also doing too much.

Hoby: They’re hurting, they’re not helping. Wow!

This has been such an amazing interview. I am just so touched by what we’ve talked about and by your story and by the person you are. I really am. Is there anything that you want people to know that I didn’t ask you?

Sophia: I would say for the people that are watching, I guess, that they are in contact with this community, either themselves or family members. One thing I would want people to know is to not just fade into the shadows. It can be so easy to do that when you lose your sight or if you’re born blind because you’re thinking that you’re alone. Don’t do that. Don’t just fade into the shadows. Have your own voice, advocate for yourself.

And people are nicer than you think. So if you want to go out by yourself after you’ve had the correct training, you should try it.

Hoby: Ask people for help.

Sophia: And ask people. I’m telling you, people are much nicer than you think.

Hoby: So true. Sophia, I would love to be able to include just an email for you in the show notes so people can get in touch with you. Are you okay with that?

Sophia: Yes.

Hoby: Thank you so much. You might hear from a lot of people because you’re a very inspirational, warm, and healing person for so many. And I can see how you do that as a recruiter in human resources. It’s the perfect, perfect role for you.

Sophia: Thank you.

Hoby: This is the Heard & Empowered podcast, and we just had a great conversation with Sophia McCall. Sophia, thank you.

Sophia: Thank you.

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